Consequences of the Warning Passages in Hebrews

This is where I am so far...

- The warnings are to believers.
- Though what is warned against are real possibilities, they are not to be expected of faithful Christians.
- There are dire consequences for disobedience after salvation.

 

Because those who do not enter into the kingdom will not enter into life during that age. They will not be raised up again until a thousand years later. Basically they will experience death during the millennium.

Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

This is a conditional promise of never seeing death, if we keep His saying. We can't apply this to physical death, because everyone dies. If we apply this to eternal salvation, then eternal salvation is by keeping the Lord's saying. I think it is a conditional promise of escaping death at the judgment seat of Christ.

 

Apollos, bro.! :thumbsup: :BangHead: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

Yep! :thumbsup:

Ed

 

"Yup!" "Yup!" and "Yup!" in that order to your three points. :thumbsup: :smilewinkgrin:

Ed

 

Before we can determine how the writer of Hebrew's words apply to us we must determine what the writer of Hebrews was saying to his listeners.

The writer of Hebrews is writing to Jews who had confessed Christ, but were now considering forsaking Christ and returning to Jewish worship. He is clearly telling these Jews that, if they turn their backs upon Christ, they will face eternal damnation.

So, these Jews are either saved and they are being threatened with the loss of salvation.

...or they are not saved and are being threatened with eternal judgement if they do not accept Christ.

...or we don't know whether they are saved or not (and the writers seems to have his doubts), thus they are being warned of eternal judgement unless they continue in the faith that they have professed.

I think the third view is accurate and, having just preached through this section on Sunday nights, this is the way I applied the passages to our flock. I said something like this:

"It is possible that, in ten years, someone sitting here tonight, a faithful member of our church (after all, you are here on Sunday night!), might fall away from Christ. That is, you will stop worshipping Jesus, you will stop taking communion, you will sin willfully and continually and never confess it, you might become involved in drunkeness or pornography. If that occurs, I can offer no comfort that you are saved and you should not delude yourself with a false confidence. You see, the one who is justified shall continually live by faith. If we stop living by faith and we live in rebellion against God, we can have no confidence that we are God's child. Rather we should in fear that we are going to face God's wrath."

 

Sounds like Lordship salvation to me...false doctrine.

 

Webdog, a couple of questions for you about the text.

Consider Heb 10:26: For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiveing the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacriefice for sins,

Can a person enter heaven if they have sins which are not atoned for and for which there is no atonement?

And then verse 27: but a fearful expectation of judgement, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

If a person faces God with unatoned sins, will their judgement be of their works or will it be the condemnation of their soul? If a person experiences the "fury of fire" with sins that are not atoned for, will the fire not be the fire of hell?

These are tough verses, there is no doubt. Please don't accuse me of "Lordship salvation" or "false doctrine". I have wrestled with this text and come to a conclusion with a clear conscience. If I am wrong I hope I am humble enough to learn if you can show me otherwise. I welcome a discussion of the text and its meaning but I don't care much for name-calling.

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=900982&postcount=37

I'm not Webdog, and this is my first try at sending any link but here is some of what I take this to mean, actually from another subject that touches on this, I believe.

Ed

 

"May I say" something? I may or may not believe something is "false doctrine", but I don't think that characterization is necessarily "name calling", be it either the interpretation of the 'poster' or the 'answerer'. And unfortunately as well as frankly, both you and I see enough "name calling" on this Board.

And there is a 'system' of doctrine that is 'described' and/or 'defined' as 'Lordship Salvation'. To identify something as 'Lordship salvation' is not name calling, either, any more than 'free grace', 'Baptist', or 'OSAS', to name three, are "name calling", especially when merely noted as to define a teaching or teachings or polity someone is proclaiming.

Regardless of how at ease one is with his or her conclusions, if one cannot 'define' this without it being assumed as 'name calling', how can distinctions and definitions be debated. I admit to being classified in the so-called "free grace" crowd, even though the term is redundant from the outset. I have also been 'accused', at times, of being an Arminian (I'm not!), a Calvinist (Nope!), a 'Dispensationalist' (Yep! I guess one out of three ain't too bad.), as characterizations, and a few more which I won't print, that were "name calling", and I was rightly annoyed, IMO. But for someone to merely disagree with my positions, or attempt to give a 'shorthand title' is not the same thing.

Anyway, ya'll have a good day tomorow, and just remember that if ol' Ben Franklin had got his way 225 years ago, the turkey would have been the National Bird, and we'd have long since eaten the eagle into extinction. :tongue3: :laugh:

Ed

 

Try:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=1895

Ed

 

Ed Sutton,

When I posted on this thread, I addressed the topic and a specific passage.

The reply which used the terms "Lorship Salvation" and "false doctrine" did no address my statement or advance any argument for a posititon. It characterized my comments without providing any reasoning. This is a discussion board, so why not discuss my comments rather than label my post with derogatory words (not that you did this).

If my comments stand without refutation then readers who do not post will have to consider their validity. In that sense I am glad I posted and my post serves its purpose. I am disappointed that no discussion occurred in reference to my comments, however.

 

You have overlooked the fourth option, which is what we have been discussing (at least I have), namely that a person who is saved eternally by the blood of Christ may nevertheless be found worthy of punishment at the judgment seat of Christ. Christ either paid for my sins on the cross or He didn't. How can you expect a 'believer' to be able to live an overcoming Christian life if it is not firmly grounded on the faith that you have been redeemed, and you have been created a new creature? Abstaining from sin can be no assurance of salvation, if at some point down the road you may find yourself to be unsaved due to the fact that you 'stopped living by faith'. How were you ever living by faith if you weren't saved? If such a 'believer' wasn't living by faith, how do you know you are living by faith?

All those sins have been atoned for as far as eternal security is concerned.
Hebrews 10:12-14
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.
In regard to the eternal penalty for sin, all our sins have been covered by the blood of Jesus and we have been made perfect.
Hebrews 10:17-18
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Sacrifices have been done away with, because we have remission of our sins through the blood of Jesus.
Hebrews 10:29
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
This is not talking about an unbeliever who sneaked into church. If he was sanctified by the blood of the covenant, then he too was perfected forever by the one offering. There is no further sacrifice to be made. But that one offering does not excuse us from sin. It saves us from the lake of fire, but it will not save us from wrath at the judgment seat, and we are no longer allowed to kill a goat and call it even.

 

Worthy of punishment? Punishment for what? Sin? If Christ paid for his sin, how could he be liable for punishment? If Christ did not pay for his sin then how is he entering heaven in the first place?

I don't think your solution solved the problem of Hebrews 10.

Thanks for discussing the topic :wavey:

 

If Christ's sacrifice paid for our sins, how can we be chastened for them in this life? The atonement guaranteed that we would be kept from the lake of fire at the great white throne. It didn't guarantee that we would be crowned at the judgment seat of Christ. There are unconditional promises and there are conditional promises. A believer is promised that they will be raised up on the last day, regardless of works. But we are also promised that we will be rewarded for our works, whether they be good or bad. If we suffer we shall reign. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.

 

I am not familiar with the concept that believers are chastened for their sins in this life. Where do you find that?

 

This has abosutely NOTHING to with a believer as Christ will NEVER deny us!

 

Yes, Allan, I agree. The verse continues, "if we are faithless, he remains faithful; he cannot deny himself."