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Corporate and Individual Election for Salvation

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A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Van said:
People are not chosen prior to faith individually, we are chosen individually through or on the basis of faith, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

2Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In order to be chosen through faith, faith must be prior to the individual election, otherwise the choice would not be through faith. Therefore our election prior to our creation must be corporate according to scripture.
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Wow, you avoided "God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit." The conjunction, "and faith in the truth," is the response of the one who has been chosen from the beginning by the Holy Spirit setting them apart.

But, you switch the order to make it backwards so that your own personal faith causes God to chose you and therefore sanctify you.

Van, you are robbing God of the glory due His name while you magnify yourself in God's place. That should make you shudder with trembling at the wrath of God upon you for speaking falsely regarding God's salvation.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AustinC said:
I quoted that verse, which actually proves you to be wrong. Why do you deny what God tells you?
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2Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Folks, one of us has been proven wrong.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AustinC said:
Wow, you avoided "God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit." The conjunction, "and faith in the truth," is the response of the one who has been chosen from the beginning by the Holy Spirit setting them apart.

But, you switch the order to make it backwards so that your own personal faith causes God to chose you and therefore sanctify you.

Van, you are robbing God of the glory due His name while you magnify yourself in God's place. That should make you shudder with trembling at the wrath of God upon you for speaking falsely regarding God's salvation.
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Here "and" is redefined by the Calvinist into "resulting." Not how it reads. So they rob truth from scripture, then charge me with their malfeasance. Go figure
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Reader, decide for yourself. Did God choose you based upon your own faith, which God is impressed with and considers righteous...or did God choose you, then sanctify you by the Spirit and give you faith?

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you see corporate election in these verses? Do you see God being impressed with your faith so that God goes from corporate election to individual election based upon your own faith being righteous in an of itself?

If so, you agree with Van's teaching.

If you see God choosing you, sanctifying you and causing you to believe, you agree with AustinC.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Reader, decide for yourself. Did God choose you based upon your own faith, which God is impressed with and considers righteous...or did God choose you, then sanctify you by the Spirit and give you faith?

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you see corporate election in these verses? Do you see God being impressed with your faith so that God goes from corporate election to individual election based upon your own faith being righteous in an of itself?

If so, you agree with Van's teaching.

If you see God choosing you, sanctifying you and causing you to believe, you agree with AustinC.
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It's funny that you post a verse that opposes what you Believe. This scripture clearly states the truth, It says right in the middle of it,"God chose you as the first fruits to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."' In other words these all must come first before you're saved. I do not agree with Van at all because Van is an Arminian. Arminians are your close brethren. LOL!
MB
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
MB said:
It's funny that you post a verse that opposes what you Believe. This scripture clearly states the truth, It says right in the middle of it,"God chose you as the first fruits to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."' In other words these all must come first before you're saved. I do not agree with Van at all because Van is an Arminian. Arminians are your close brethren. LOL!
MB
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It's funny that you forget "God chose you", which comes first. After all, this is about election. Therefore, "God chose you"..."to be saved." How? By being set apart and by belief, which is by the work of the Spirit.

As for what you believe, I assume it's some Roman Catholic merit based method.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
Chosen but not elect. Though it is we who first trusted in Christ
Eph_1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"MB,

Chosen but not elect.
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What??? chosen to play pinochle?


Though it is we who first trusted in Christ
Eph_1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
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Unfortunately, The first 11 verses are in Eph.1 so you theory is a non starter.
 
Salty

Salty

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Six Warning warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 1230 am (Sun) EST / 930 pm (Sat) PST
 
A

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Van said:
2Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Folks, one of us has been proven wrong.
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Yep. And it's you. Lol. God chose us for, not through, faith.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
 
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