Corporate Election

[Reynolds]

How do you know what they want or don’t want? have you talked to some that expressed what they want or are you assuming so as to be able to demonize them?


Where are these arminians of which you have determined what they want?

I guess that God in His Sovereignty made us want that. Or something like that. It's strange that we get demonized for believing what God makes us believe. Oh Well!

 

[Yeshua1]

Arminians hold to individual election based on divine foreknowledge (defined as pre-knowledge).

I'm asking about corporate election vmas opposed to individual election (regardless of individual election being foreseen or decreed).

I am basing this upon the 'Elect in the Son" required reading at my AOG college, which is the basic arminian concept on this!

 

[Yeshua1]

The choice to save believers is a corporate election and none of the believers have been chosen. The claim a corporate election "entails the choice of individuals" is false. Say I am driving to the store and I choose to buy grapes. Have I chosen individual grapes? No, of course not. Only when I subsequently pick a package of grapes, were the individual grapes chosen. Same thing with salvation. God chose to redeem believers, but did not pick any individuals. Why, because we existed as not a people chosen by God, before we were chosen as a people for God's possession. 1 Peter 2:9-10.

Scripture requires the Election of Ephesians 1:4 to be corporate. Full Stop.

Did Jesus die for individual sinner sin their place then, or for the corporate plan /body?

 

[JonC]

Edit for clarity:

The call is a general call in that all the sheep in the pen hear the voice of the shepherd. The call is a specific call in that only the chosen sheep recognize the voice of their master, He calls them by name, and respond by following Him.

So, in a sense, you can say the individual chosen sheep are called by name, individually elect, but make up a larger group and together they are corporately “elect”.

Bit the “call” is personal, individual, because Jesus calls us by name.

peace to you

Good illustration about the call.

I am not saying I disagree, but at the same time you ate assuming this calling of the Shepherd is election (rather than calling the sheep who are already in the flock the Shepherd is calling sheep to the flock).

Thank you for taking the time, brother.

 

[Van]

How in the world does that out of context verse show corporate election?

The false charge of "out of context" is meaningless, yet another false charge to defend false doctrine.

 

[Van]

Did Jesus die for individual sinner sin their place then, or for the corporate plan /body?

Asked and answered many times. Please quote my past response and address it. PSA is false doctrine. Christ dies as a ransom for all. But not all bought were given to Christ. Ring a bell?

 

[Reformed1689]

The false charge of "out of context" is meaningless, yet another false charge to defend false doctrine.

Yet I noticed you didn't show how it shows corporate election either... Hmm..

 

[37818]

What I have not heard explained is how the corprate of Ephesians 1:4 excludes the individual?

 

[Van]

Yet I noticed you didn't show how it shows corporate election either... Hmm..

Yet another false claim from the fount of false claims... Scripture requires Ephesians 1:4 to be a corporate election. Deal with it,

 

[Van]

What I have not heard explained is how the corprate of Ephesians 1:4 excludes the individual?

Utterly false claim, recall the grapes?

 

[Yeshua1]

Asked and answered many times. Please quote my past response and address it. PSA is false doctrine. Christ dies as a ransom for all. But not all bought were given to Christ. Ring a bell?

Paul and the reformers did not see Psa as being false doctrine!

 

[Reformed1689]

Yet another false claim from the fount of false claims... Scripture requires Ephesians 1:4 to be a corporate election. Deal with it,

How? Explain. You can't.

 

[Revmitchell]

How? Explain. You can't.

I know you and I have agreed to stay away from these issues but I can explain this without all the vitriol.

That verse says that it is “in Him” that we are chosen. That indicates the qualification of being in Him already to be chosen. Clearly the election in that verse is in the context of what happens after we are saved which I’d found in the second half of that verse.

I know you disagree but I hope that answers your question.

 

[Reformed1689]

I know you and I have agreed to stay away from these issues but I can explain this without all the vitriol.

That verse says that it is “in Him” that we are chosen. That indicates the qualification of being in Him already to be chosen. Clearly the election in that verse is in the context of what happens after we are saved which I’d found in the second half of that verse.

I know you disagree but I hope that answers your question.

It definitely answers your viewpoint, and yes, I disagree. He is speaking to people who already know they were chosen by way of their salvation. He's addressing a group so of course he uses the we and us collective terms. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. But they were still elected as individuals.

 

[Revmitchell]

It definitely answers your viewpoint, and yes, I disagree. He is speaking to people who already know they were chosen by way of their salvation. He's addressing a group so of course he uses the we and us collective terms. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. But they were still elected as individuals.

my point has nothing to do with “ we” but “in Him”. That is key here in this verse

 

[Reformed1689]

my point has nothing to do with “ we” but “in Him”. That is key here in this verse

Ok maybe I don't understand what you are trying to argue then...

 

[agedman]

Christ picked out “us in Him”.

“Us” is first person, and “in Him” signifies the ownership and acquisition.

Neither indicates some form of corporate election, but very specific individual choice of individuals selected.

 

[Revmitchell]

Ok maybe I don't understand what you are trying to argue then...

you have to be “ in Him” before you are elect hence corporate election

 

[agedman]

you have to be “ in Him” before you are elect hence corporate election

When is one “in Him” according to the passage?

is it not “from the foundation of the world?”

4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence.​

 

[Revmitchell]

When is one “in Him” according to the passage?

is it not “from the foundation of the world?”

4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence.​

yes I’m well aware of what your position is