Could Christ Have Sinned? II

[SGO]

For there is one God,
and one mediator
between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus.
1Timothy 2:5

Not one God made of two people,
not a "flip-flopper".

Our God became a man to mediate:
to right a relationship that I (we) made wrong in order
to provide an opportunity for forgiveness for all.

The man Christ Jesus.

Some want him not as a man to rely on God, but that He could do His work Himself because He has the nature of God.

If He has the nature of God there is no room for failure.

If He was only a man ...

Who,
being in the form of God,
thought it
not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself
of no reputation,
and took upon him
the form of a servant,
and was made
in the likeness of men...
Philippians 2:6-7

But I have a greater witness than that of John:
for the works which the Father hath given me to finish,
the same works that I do,
bear witness of me,
that the Father has sent me.
John 5:36

 

[Aaron]

Then Satan was a complete doofus and you should laugh at him for believing Jesus, as human, was corruptible, unless God, Jesus and Satan were all in on a big scam. But moreso, we should erase Philippians 2:5-9 from our Bibles, or we should consider it as true and consider how much greater the Lord is because He chose to be born with a volition that could choose to sin just like you, and yet He chose not to do so. You ought to consider why that is important instead of clinging to the term "incorruptible." Our Savior is greater than John 1:1. 1 Corinthians 15 reminds us why that is so.

Myopic drivel, changing, as you like to do, the image of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man.

Jesus, "as human", received the worship of men and angels. Was even Adam in his innocence worthy of that?

Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.​

 

[Larry the Logger]

Thanks for your post. What matters is the true interpretation of Scriptures, right? By your words you suggest that Alofa Atu, author of post 11, does "heartily desagree".

You invoked and brought Ahab here knowing that he was an ungodly man, he died around year 852BC , but not his spirit.

By the way, Ahab will be cast down into the lake of fire , by the Word of God , in this END's time, according Romans 2:12: ... as many as have sinned in the law shall be Judged by the law.

Romans 2:v.5 to 12

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law - the Gentiles -shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law - the Jews - shall be Judged by the law;

I used the reference to Ahab because God used a lie to trick Ahab and was pleased an angel came up with the solution which was to lie; Rahab lied and as a result God saw fit to illustrate her faith in God for all eternity.

Don't be surprised when Ahab is resuscitated with the rest of Israel per Ezekiel's valley of dry bones and lives somewhere on the Millennial Kingdom earth. He certainly won't be living in millennial Israel nor have access to Ezekiel's temple but he'll probably be living in Palmdale, California or Twenty Nine Palms wondering what he needs to do to get it right this time.

Your use of Romans 2 is confusing because that chapter in context refers back to Romans 1 and the Roman believers who pointed their self-righteous fingers at the people doing Romans 1:18-32, not realizing that Paul was actually speaking of those Roman believers (who will receive resurrection bodies) doing exactly the same thing per Romans 2:1. A rope-a-dope on Paul's part if you will. IOW, Romans 2 is the beginning of the solution (Romans 2:7) for unfaithful believers like those in Rome. Not doing the solution per the entire rest of Romans means loss of inheritance in eternity, but NOT loss of salvation, two very different things.

 

[Larry the Logger]

Myopic drivel, changing, as you like to do, the image of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man.

Jesus, "as human", received the worship of men and angels. Was even Adam in his innocence worthy of that?

Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.​

Please, the ad hominems are legion and they don't accomplish anything. Ribbing? Kidding around? Sure. Also, the false accusations based on your incorrect assumptions aren't a good look for you. You have not considered the four passages I continue to expound on in my responses. I have considered and explained all of yours. I have shown, with Scripture your continued misapplication of the term "incorruptible." I would re-emphasize, understanding Philippians 2:5-10.

And, no, it is ridiculous to think Adam was worthy of praise just because he was created without a sin nature. When you understand why Jesus received worship of men and angels at His birth, then you'll understand why I do not believe Adam could ever be worthy of worship of men and angels.

 

[Aaron]

Please, the ad hominems are legion and they don't accomplish anything. Ribbing? Kidding around? Sure. Also, the false accusations based on your incorrect assumptions aren't a good look for you. You have not considered the four passages I continue to expound on in my responses. I have considered and explained all of yours. I have shown, with Scripture your continued misapplication of the term "incorruptible." I would re-emphasize, understanding Philippians 2:5-10.

And, no, it is ridiculous to think Adam was worthy of praise just because he was created without a sin nature. When you understand why Jesus received worship of men and angels at His birth, then you'll understand why I do not believe Adam could ever be worthy of worship of men and angels.

It's getting tedious now, but God is only worthy of worship. You're advocating idolatry.

 

[Larry the Logger]

It's getting tedious now, but God is only worthy of worship. You're advocating idolatry.

Idolatry? Okay Ricochet Rabbit, prove it.

 

[Aaron]

Idolatry? Prove it.

Lol, by saying that Adam, a corruptible creation, in his innocence was worthy of worship. Despite Christ's maxim to the contrary. False doctrine will always elevate man, and demote God. That's idolatry.

 

[Larry the Logger]

Lol, by saying that Adam, a corruptible creation, in his innocence was worthy of worship. Despite Christ's maxim to the contrary. False doctrine will always elevate man, and demote God. That's idolatry.

Reading comprehension problem? From my post, copied and pasted:

"then you'll understand why I do not believe Adam could ever be worthy of worship of men and angels."

 

[Tsalagi]

At what point was Jesus not God?

At no point.

At no point was the uncorruptible God able to lie.

At what point was Jesus not alive? At no point is the eternal God able to die, right?

If Jesus did not die and was not resurrected from the dead, your faith is in vain and you are yet in your sins (1 Corinthians 15:17).

 

[SGO]

God did not die but a perfect man, our Lord, died in our place,
but wait, He rose from the dead!
Amazing.

*Raised by the Father

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Galatians 1:1

*Raised by the Holy Spirit

But if the Spirit of him
that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,
he that raised up Christ from the dead
shall also quicken your mortal bodies
by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Romans 8:11

*Raised by Himself

Jesus answered and said unto them,
Destroy this temple,
and in three days I will raise it up.
But he spake of the temple of his body.
John 2:19, :21

 

[Tsalagi]

Myopic drivel, changing, as you like to do, the image of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man.

I'd be a bit more careful with my words if I were you. Scripture says Jesus made Himself of no reputation and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and came in the likeness (image) of mortal man. Do you want to try telling Him that He engaged in "myopic drivel" in so doing?

Wait, first let me move to a safe distance. OK, go ...

p.s. the word in the passage you allude to is the "glory" of God, not His image. We are made in that image, by the way (1 Corinthians 11:7, James 3:9). Details matter.

 

[kyredneck]

What was His will that He gave up (Luke 22:42)
to do the Father's will?

To be saved from death - Hebrews 5:7

He wasn’t asking to circumvent the cross, He was asking to be saved from death. He was willing to give immortality up, but His supplication was heard, God raised Him from the dead!

 

[SGO]

Thank you for the verse reference.

 

[Aaron]

Reading comprehension problem? From my post, copied and pasted:

"then you'll understand why I do not believe Adam could ever be worthy of worship of men and angels."

No. I read it in a hurry. But my point remains. Jesus received worship, not just as a babe, but as a man in his ministry. And it was right for people to worship Him, and right for Him to receive it, because He was and is ever the uncorruptible God. He cannot lie. He cannot sin.

 

[Aaron]

At what point was Jesus not alive? At no point is the eternal God able to die, right?

If Jesus did not die and was not resurrected from the dead, your faith is in vain and you are yet in your sins (1 Corinthians 15:17).

It doesn't follow that because He tasted death He was corruptible. God wouldn't even suffer His flesh to see corruption. But death could not hold Him, because...?

 

[Aaron]

I'd be a bit more careful with my words if I were you. Scripture says Jesus made Himself of no reputation and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and came in the likeness (image) of mortal man. Do you want to try telling Him that He engaged in "myopic drivel" in so doing?

Wait, first let me move to a safe distance. OK, go ...

p.s. the word in the passage you allude to is the "glory" of God, not His image. We are made in that image, by the way (1 Corinthians 11:7, James 3:9). Details matter.

Glory, image whatever. The point's the same.

 

[Tsalagi]

It doesn't follow that because He tasted death He was corruptible. God wouldn't even suffer His flesh to see corruption. But death could not hold Him, because...?

It follows that because Jesus died, and God can't die, that in His humanity Jesus was capable of things that deity is incapable of. There are all manner of things Jesus was capable of in His humanity that deity is not susceptible to, as already noted. Blindly repeating the "deity isn't capable of sin" argument is not persuasive. Deity isn't capable of death, but Jesus died. Deity can't be tempted and can't choose to sin, but Jesus was tempted and could have chosen to sin. The fact that He chose not to sin, but instead chose to dedicate Himself fully to the will of the Father, makes him "Worthy ... to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing!" (Revelation 5:12).

 

[Tsalagi]

Glory, image whatever. The point's the same.

The point is wrong. The image of God has been expressed in corruptible man by God Himself - that's what the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 11:7 and James 3:9, so it is hardly "myopic drivel" as you claim. Reducing Jesus' genuine victory over temptation to a mere sham diminishes His incarnate glory.

Which Jesus is greater, one who could not sin if He wanted to, or one who was tempted to sin but chose not to out of love for us and for His Father? Which one sets an example of reliance on God's Word and God's Spirit that we can realistically follow?

 

[Aaron]

The point is wrong. The image of God has been expressed in corruptible man by God Himself - that's what the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 11:7 and James 3:9, so it is hardly "myopic drivel" as you claim. Reducing Jesus' genuine victory over temptation to a mere sham diminishes His incarnate glory.

Which Jesus is greater, one who could not sin if He wanted to, or one who was tempted to sin but chose not to out of love for us and for His Father? Which one sets an example of reliance on God's Word and God's Spirit that we can realistically follow?

The point is, you have an image in your head about the Incarnation. It is false and unbiblical if you say the Word could not become flesh without being corruptible. You are trading His glory (part of which is His incorruptible nature) for an image made like to corruptible man.

Man is not worthy of worship. But Christ received it from men and angels. Why? because He was and is and always will be the uncorruptible God.

 

[Larry the Logger]

No. I read it in a hurry.

I see. You know, I have a tendency, because of my desperately wicked heart, to fail the Holy Spirit when it comes to producing the fruit of Galatians 5:22-23. Yep, especially the central fruit of that wonderful chiasm; kindness. Sadly, I also fail at all three pieces of fruit at the center of the chiasm directed towards fellow believers which of course are patience (long suffering); kindness, and goodness. When I do that, I have a natural tendency to be spring loaded with an answer because I don't want to lose the argument and I want to make my point and prove to someone-and let the world know just how correct I am, instead of thoughtfully considering that person's response and trying my best to use God's Word to allow them to understand the differences of opinion and differences in understanding. Thankfully I'm still alive and I can still study God's Word so that the Holy Spirit has the Word in my soul to use with His power to change me. Then and only then, He can produce that fruit I so desperately need.

You, on the other hand, on that one occasion, just read too quickly, maybe because of some distraction, which resulted in you believing I said the exact opposite of what I actually said; an understandable mistake. Because of that mistake of reading too quickly and missing the meaning of what I said, you also accused me of advocating idolatry which would be true if I actually worshiped and wanted others to worship Adam. Thankfully, it's not true although the missus does like it when I surprise her with a hemorrhoid made of gold like the Philistines so enjoyed in 1 Samuel. Just kidding.

Jesus received worship, not just as a babe, but as a man in his ministry. And it was right for people to worship Him, and right for Him to receive it,

I could not agree with you more.

because He was and is ever the uncorruptible God. He cannot lie. He cannot sin.

To steal a quote from an admitted speed reader in this thread, "It's getting tedious now," and I agree with that too.