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Creeds vs. Bible

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Wesley Briggman

Wesley Briggman

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asterisktom said:
Yes, I do believe He already appeared in AD70. That was the glorious appearing. But the blessed hope is ongoing for all who are in Christ.
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This is new theology to me and brings up many questions.

How long did Christ stay on earth?

Are their historic records of this event?

Do you believe He is going to appear in the future?
 
37818

37818

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Yeshua1 said:
happens at essential same time, in twinkling of an eye!
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The order is the dead and then the change, ". . . Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. . . ." 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.
 
Y

Yeshua1

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37818 said:
The order is the dead and then the change, ". . . Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. . . ." 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.
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Yes, so close together would appear to be at same time!
 
37818

37818

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Yeshua1 said:
Yes, so close together would appear to be at same time!
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You miss the importance of the rapture will never take place before the resurrection of dead in Christ. 1 Thessalonians 4:15. And that there is only a second appearing of Christ, Acts of the Apostles 1:11, Hebrews 9:28.
 
Y

Yeshua1

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37818 said:
You miss the importance of the rapture will never take place before the resurrection of dead in Christ. 1 Thessalonians 4:15. And that there is only a second appearing of Christ, Acts of the Apostles 1:11, Hebrews 9;28.
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I hold to the classical premil position on second coming....
 
37818

37818

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Yeshua1 said:
I hold to the classical premil position on second coming....
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". . . And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. . . ." Revelation 20:4-5. And when the rapture had occurd, right?
 
Y

Yeshua1

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37818 said:
". . . And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. . . ." Revelation 20:4-5. And when the rapture had occurd, right?
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First resurrection will at time of the Second coming....
 
HankD

HankD

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asterisktom said:
The promise of no more death, Hank, was time-specific. It had to do with the first century Christians. I do not believe that was promised to us. The focus of the Bible, I believe, is our eternal relationship with God, not the incredibly small amount of time we spend on this earth..
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well it is an answer but not a satisfying answer.

once I believe i offered you this as a possible preterist answer - Entropy will run its course, the "heat death" of the universe which will disintegrate all matter and all biological life will end, thus sin and death as well in fulfillment of 2 Peter 3:10-12?

This may also take the form of a gamma burst event or a collision with an asteroid or who knows what ...

Even that leaves me unsatisfied because of several other eschatological and even several scientific issues.
 
Jerome

Jerome

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What's the specific clause in The Confession that upsets the OP's 'preterism' scheme?
 
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Yeshua1

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HankD said:
well it is an answer but not a satisfying answer.

once I believe i offered you this as a possible preterist answer - Entropy will run its course, the "heat death" of the universe which will disintegrate all matter and all biological life will end, thus sin and death as well in fulfillment of 2 Peter 3:10-12?

This may also take the form of a gamma burst event or a collision with an asteroid or who knows what ...

Even that leaves me unsatisfied because of several other eschatological and even several scientific issues.
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When the second coming happens, life and history as we now know it both ends!
 
M

MB

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asterisktom said:
Oh please. If it is heresy there must be a verse proving it is heresy. Give me one.
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Prove your theory. This you have not done. All you have done is make false claims. There is no proof for something that exist in your mind.
MB
 
asterisktom

asterisktom

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Martin Marprelate said:
Please note that I never use the word heresy on a discussion forum, or indeed, anywhere else much, but the chief delight of Hyper-preterism is that it is very easily refuted.

Acts 1:9-11. Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly towards heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."'

1. The Lord Jesus left visibly (see the underlined sections). He will return 'in like manner' i.e. visibly.
2. The Lord Jesus left in a body that was 'flesh and bones' and that ate broiled fish and honey comb (Luke 24:38-43). He will return 'in like manner' i.e. in a body.
3. People saw the Lord Jesus ascend towards heaven; people will see Him return from heaven (Revelation 1:7).
4. Clouds came across to conceal Him from the apostles' sight; clouds will part 'in like manner' to reveal Him.

These verses are a complete rebuttal of the Hyper-preterist myth.
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"adverb
a word or phrase that modifies or qualifies an adjective, verb, or other adverb or a word group, expressing a relation of place, time, circumstance, manner, cause, degree, etc."

"In like manner", not in like essence. He was not to come like He was "in the days of His flesh" but in the glory that He had before with the Father.

So how did He leave? In a cloud. How did He come back? In a cloud. This is all in Scripture. Look it up. You will not find it in the creeds. They seemed to have overlooked that crucial detail.

And I agree with your points 2 and 3. Also with point 4, except for the clouds parting. You must be thinking of a hymn or something. The symbol of clouds is used differently in Scripture. Perhaps this would be a good thread in itself. Clouds are a very instructive theme to study out.

So I am not the one following a myth. Not that Christianity is a myth, but the false notion that Christ is still to come physically. It is not borne out by Scripture.
 
asterisktom

asterisktom

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MB said:
Prove your theory. This you have not done. All you have done is make false claims. There is no proof for something that exist in your mind.
MB
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I have been proving it with Scripture. In this post and in many other threads. Look them up. I am not going to jump through your hoops, seeing that you have not even responded to the verses I brought up.in posts 25 and 27.
 
asterisktom

asterisktom

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37818 said:
Huh? No. It is wrong for the same reasons the pre-trib rapture view is wrong.

There is only one second appearing, Hebrews 9:28.

The rapture will not in any way take place before the dead in Christ are raised, 1 Thessalonians 4:15.
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I agree with your last two points. Only one second appearing. And the living and dead are raised up at the same time.

But this happened already. As Christ and the apostles had promised it happened in the generation to whom the promise was originally given. We still enter into that promise, but not via rapture. After our death we will also be like them.
 
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