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Daily Reading the KJV1611 Edition
- Thread starter Ed Edwards
- Start date
"He that hath the sone of God, hath also lijf; he that hath not the sone of God, hath not lijf." - Wycliffe] (1395)
"He that hath the sonne hath lyfe: and he that hath not the sonne of god hath not lyfe." - Tyndale (1526)
"He that hath the sonne of God, hath life: He that hath not the sonne of God, hath not life." - Coverdale (1535)
"He that hath the sonne, hath lyfe: and he that hath not the sonne of God, hath not lyfe." - Bishops' (1568)
"He that hath that Sonne, hath yt life: and he that hath not yt Sonne of God, hath not that life." - Geneva (1587)
"Hee that hath the Sonne, hath life; and hee that hath not the Sonne, hath not life." - King James Version (1611)
"he that receives the son, is intitled to life; and he that does not receive the son of God, has no title to life." - Mace NT (1729)
"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." - Wesley's NT (1755)
"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." - King James Version (1769)
"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." - New King James Version (1982)
Just a thought here, but could it be that the 1611 actually took away the phrase while the 1769 restored it?
It must have been a printing error, huh?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"He that hath the sonne hath lyfe: and he that hath not the sonne of god hath not lyfe." - Tyndale (1526)
"He that hath the sonne of God, hath life: He that hath not the sonne of God, hath not life." - Coverdale (1535)
"He that hath the sonne, hath lyfe: and he that hath not the sonne of God, hath not lyfe." - Bishops' (1568)
"He that hath that Sonne, hath yt life: and he that hath not yt Sonne of God, hath not that life." - Geneva (1587)
"Hee that hath the Sonne, hath life; and hee that hath not the Sonne, hath not life." - King James Version (1611)
"he that receives the son, is intitled to life; and he that does not receive the son of God, has no title to life." - Mace NT (1729)
"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." - Wesley's NT (1755)
"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." - King James Version (1769)
"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." - New King James Version (1982)
Just a thought here, but could it be that the 1611 actually took away the phrase while the 1769 restored it?
It must have been a printing error, huh?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Yep. Here is another 'printing error'.Keith M said:
(Also listed is a modern version (MV) that explains the
meaning of the passage much better. The personalization
has been removed, the instruction is for all people, not
just the 'he' or 'she' involved.)
Son 2:7 (KJK1611 Edition):
I charge you, O ye daughters of Ierusalem, by the Roes,
and by the hindes of the field, that ye stirre not vp,
nor awake my loue, till she please
Son 2:7 (KJK1769 Edition):
charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes,
and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up,
nor awake my love, till he please.
Song of Solomon 2:7 (HCSB - Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ )
Young women of Jerusalem, I charge you,by the gazelles
and the wild does of the field:do not stir up
or awaken love until the appropriate time.
MatthewDiscipleOfGod
Member
I am not a KJV only follower. I have posted this elsewhere on this site but I believe the majority text is the text we should be using. That all being said take care not to have a mocking attitute towards believers of KJV only. All to often I see a bad attitude coming from those wanting to "correct" the KJV onlyists. Also make sure you stick to solid arguments when making your arguments that the KJV can't be considered the only correct translation to use.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Mat 27:16-17 (KJV1611 Edition):
And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas.
17 Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said vnto them,
Whom will ye that I release vnto you? Barabbas,
or Iesus, which is called Christ?
Note the new translation HCSB follows the KJV1611 (using the
same source) with the name 'Barabbas' only. However, I've seen
the HCSB maligned for noting the Bible Sources truth in a footnote.
Matthew 16-17 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
At that time they had a notorious prisoner called Barabbas*.
17 So when they had gathered together, Pilate said to them,
"Whom do you want me to release for you--Barabbas*,
or Jesus who is called Messiah?"
Translator's Footnote:
* Other mss read Jesus Barabbas
And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas.
17 Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said vnto them,
Whom will ye that I release vnto you? Barabbas,
or Iesus, which is called Christ?
Note the new translation HCSB follows the KJV1611 (using the
same source) with the name 'Barabbas' only. However, I've seen
the HCSB maligned for noting the Bible Sources truth in a footnote.
Matthew 16-17 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
At that time they had a notorious prisoner called Barabbas*.
17 So when they had gathered together, Pilate said to them,
"Whom do you want me to release for you--Barabbas*,
or Jesus who is called Messiah?"
Translator's Footnote:
* Other mss read Jesus Barabbas
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Hebrews 2:6-8 quotes Psalm 8:4-6.
Compare the two.
Hebrews 2:6-8 (KJV1611 Edition);
But one in a certaine place testified, saying:
What is man, that thou art mindfull of him:
or the Sonne of man that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower then the Angels,
thou crownedst him with glory and honor,
and didst set him ouer the workes of thy hands.
8 Thou hast put all things in subiection vnder his feete.
For in that he put all in subiection vnder him,
hee left nothing that is not put vnder him.
But now wee see not yet all things put vnder him.
Psalm 8:4-6 (KJV1611 Edition):
What is man, that thou art mindfull of him?
and the sonne of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower then the Angels;
and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to haue dominion
ouer the workes of thy hands;
thou hast put all things vnder his feete.
Did the writer of Hebrews use the LXX?
Did the translator of of Psalm 8 used the Hebrew manuscripts?
Compare the two.
Hebrews 2:6-8 (KJV1611 Edition);
But one in a certaine place testified, saying:
What is man, that thou art mindfull of him:
or the Sonne of man that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower then the Angels,
thou crownedst him with glory and honor,
and didst set him ouer the workes of thy hands.
8 Thou hast put all things in subiection vnder his feete.
For in that he put all in subiection vnder him,
hee left nothing that is not put vnder him.
But now wee see not yet all things put vnder him.
Psalm 8:4-6 (KJV1611 Edition):
What is man, that thou art mindfull of him?
and the sonne of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower then the Angels;
and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to haue dominion
ouer the workes of thy hands;
thou hast put all things vnder his feete.
Did the writer of Hebrews use the LXX?
Did the translator of of Psalm 8 used the Hebrew manuscripts?
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Dan 4:34 (KJV1611 Edition):
And at the end of the dayes, I Nebuchad-nezzar lift vp
mine eyes vnto heauen, and mine vnderstanding
returned vnto me, and I blessed the most high,
and I praised, and honoured him that liueth for euer,
whose dominion is an euerlasting dominion,
and his kingdome is from generation to generation.
Compare the first phrase to some other faithful & inerrant versions:
ESV: At the end of the days /comma omitted/
HCSB: But at the end of those days,
KJV1769: And at the end of the days /comma omitted/
NIV: At the end of that time
Quiz for any KJVO who happens to actually read the
KJV1611 Edition:
Which is the inerrant version?
1. The KJV1611 Edition with the comma
2. The KJV1769 Edition without the comma
It is a principle of KJVO-ism that both cannot be inerrant.
By Contrast, we who teach "ALL scripture is given ... "
Consider that ALL THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES are all
inerrant and by studying more than one version, we can
understand God's truth better than throuh one and only
one version.
And at the end of the dayes, I Nebuchad-nezzar lift vp
mine eyes vnto heauen, and mine vnderstanding
returned vnto me, and I blessed the most high,
and I praised, and honoured him that liueth for euer,
whose dominion is an euerlasting dominion,
and his kingdome is from generation to generation.
Compare the first phrase to some other faithful & inerrant versions:
ESV: At the end of the days /comma omitted/
HCSB: But at the end of those days,
KJV1769: And at the end of the days /comma omitted/
NIV: At the end of that time
Quiz for any KJVO who happens to actually read the
KJV1611 Edition:
Which is the inerrant version?
1. The KJV1611 Edition with the comma
2. The KJV1769 Edition without the comma
It is a principle of KJVO-ism that both cannot be inerrant.
By Contrast, we who teach "ALL scripture is given ... "
Consider that ALL THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES are all
inerrant and by studying more than one version, we can
understand God's truth better than throuh one and only
one version.
franklinmonroe
Active Member
Matthew, I think I understand what you are saying. Full disclosure: I do not endorse any particular critical text. I agree, we should not mock our brothers and sisters in the Lord. :thumbs:
I have observed that the KJV-Onlyists can also have a bad attitude. In fact, it has been my experience they are more often highly offensive "correctors". For example, I have never read where a CTist has stated that choosing the KJV would result in losing salvation, etc.
In the face of what should be overwhelming empirical evidence, its especially difficult for a unregenerate world to understand how the KJV-Only position can be reasonably held. Therefore, it has become major source of credibility loss for Christians... it tends to cast us all as irrational and ridiculous. :tear:
Your advise should equally apply to the empty, weak, and false statements I have witnessed coming from the other side of this debate. I am personally embarrassed by the negative KJV-Onlyist websites and books that are available to an unprepared public.
All together, I think that any ugliness over this issue reflects poorly on us as ambassadors of Christ. Folks, let's keep it low-key and away from the unsaved eye.
I have observed that the KJV-Onlyists can also have a bad attitude. In fact, it has been my experience they are more often highly offensive "correctors". For example, I have never read where a CTist has stated that choosing the KJV would result in losing salvation, etc.
In the face of what should be overwhelming empirical evidence, its especially difficult for a unregenerate world to understand how the KJV-Only position can be reasonably held. Therefore, it has become major source of credibility loss for Christians... it tends to cast us all as irrational and ridiculous. :tear:
Your advise should equally apply to the empty, weak, and false statements I have witnessed coming from the other side of this debate. I am personally embarrassed by the negative KJV-Onlyist websites and books that are available to an unprepared public.
All together, I think that any ugliness over this issue reflects poorly on us as ambassadors of Christ. Folks, let's keep it low-key and away from the unsaved eye.
Salamander
New Member
Seems the rendering in either example of the KJB is correct. The key word is not the pronoun, but the word "please".Ed Edwards said:
I'm always amazed at the lack of understanding of simple words in their context by those who promote modern versions over and against the KJB!
To "please" means to satisfy and that according to a holy and consecreated life.
In the example give in the Holman Standard, the question comes in "Just when IS the 'appropiate' time"?? And who decides when love is to be awakened and considered apporpiate and at what age?
Seems God's Word is a little more alive than the others?:1_grouphug: :godisgood:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Keith M said:
I musta flunked English???
I thought the comma (or not) was punctuation - not spelling :godisgood:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Sirach17:1-10 (KJV1611 Edition):
The Lord created man of the earth, and turned him into it againe.
2 He gaue them few dayes, and a short time, and power
also ouer the things therein.
3 He endued them with strength by themselues,
and made them according to his image,
4 And put the feare of man vpon all flesh, and gaue
him dominion ouer beasts and foules.
5 [They receiued the vse of the fiue operations of the Lord,
and in the sixt place he imparted them vnderstanding,
and in the seuenth, speech, an interpreter of the cogitations thereof.]
6 Counsell, and a tongue, and eyes, eares, and a heart,
gaue he them to vnderstand.
7 Withall, hee filled them with the knowledge of vnderstanding,
& shewed them good and euill.
8 Hee set his eye vpon their hearts, that he might shew
them the greatnesse of his workes.
9 He gaue them to glory in his marueilous actes for euer,
that they might declare his works with vnderstanding.
10 And the elect shall praise his holy Name.
The Lord created man of the earth, and turned him into it againe.
2 He gaue them few dayes, and a short time, and power
also ouer the things therein.
3 He endued them with strength by themselues,
and made them according to his image,
4 And put the feare of man vpon all flesh, and gaue
him dominion ouer beasts and foules.
5 [They receiued the vse of the fiue operations of the Lord,
and in the sixt place he imparted them vnderstanding,
and in the seuenth, speech, an interpreter of the cogitations thereof.]
6 Counsell, and a tongue, and eyes, eares, and a heart,
gaue he them to vnderstand.
7 Withall, hee filled them with the knowledge of vnderstanding,
& shewed them good and euill.
8 Hee set his eye vpon their hearts, that he might shew
them the greatnesse of his workes.
9 He gaue them to glory in his marueilous actes for euer,
that they might declare his works with vnderstanding.
10 And the elect shall praise his holy Name.
Ed Edwards said:
No you didn't, Ed...but there are those who would say the fact that one edition has the comma and another doesn't was only a printing error and it does not constitute a difference in the two editions.
What is different is not the same... :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Continuing the exciting reading of Sirach Chapter 17:
Sir 17:11-17 (KJV1611 Edition):
Beside this he gaue them knowledge, and the law of life
for an heritage.
12 He made an euerlasting couenant with them,
and shewed them his iudgements.
13 Their eyes saw the maiestie of his glory,
and their eares heard his glorious voyce.
14 And he said vnto them, Beware of all vnrighteousnes,
and he gaue euery man commandement concerning his neighbour,
15 Their wayes are euer before him,
and shall not be hid from his eyes.
16 Euery man from his youth is giuen to euil,
neither could they make to themselues fleshie hearts for stonie.
17 For in the diuision of the nations of the whole earth,
he set a ruler ouer euery people, but Israel is the Lords portion.
Wow! some folks get their TOTAL DEPRAVITY Doctrine
from Sirach 17:16 :BangHead:
Sir 17:11-17 (KJV1611 Edition):
Beside this he gaue them knowledge, and the law of life
for an heritage.
12 He made an euerlasting couenant with them,
and shewed them his iudgements.
13 Their eyes saw the maiestie of his glory,
and their eares heard his glorious voyce.
14 And he said vnto them, Beware of all vnrighteousnes,
and he gaue euery man commandement concerning his neighbour,
15 Their wayes are euer before him,
and shall not be hid from his eyes.
16 Euery man from his youth is giuen to euil,
neither could they make to themselues fleshie hearts for stonie.
17 For in the diuision of the nations of the whole earth,
he set a ruler ouer euery people, but Israel is the Lords portion.
Wow! some folks get their TOTAL DEPRAVITY Doctrine
from Sirach 17:16 :BangHead:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Jer 17:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
The heart is deceitfull aboue all things,
and desperately wicked, who can know it?
The heart is deceitfull aboue all things,
and desperately wicked, who can know it?
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Heb 3:15 (KJV1611 Edition):
So long as it is sayd,
To day if ye heare his voyce,
harden not your hearts, as in the prouocation.
Psa 95:7-8 (KJV1611 Edition):
For he is our God,
and we are the people of his pasture,
and the sheepe of his hand:
to day if yee will heare his voyce,
8 Harden not your heart, as in the prouocation:
and as in the day of temptation, in the wildernesse:
Notice the exact quote. Compare to the
Hebrew/LXX differences in prior posts.
So long as it is sayd,
To day if ye heare his voyce,
harden not your hearts, as in the prouocation.
Psa 95:7-8 (KJV1611 Edition):
For he is our God,
and we are the people of his pasture,
and the sheepe of his hand:
to day if yee will heare his voyce,
8 Harden not your heart, as in the prouocation:
and as in the day of temptation, in the wildernesse:
Notice the exact quote. Compare to the
Hebrew/LXX differences in prior posts.
Salamander
New Member
Ok, tell us what the verse means BEYOND those "antique dictionaries":sleep:Ed Edwards said:
Isn't any man oppressed contrary to what is just? A wise man understands the reason for oppression, but can't fathom why an oppressor doesn't see the recompence of reward coming his way.
A "gift" destroys the heart in the way that gifts given cause the receiver to be incapable of rational thought due to the giver having an accountability required of the receiver for taking the gift as in a sort of bribe.
Now, if one truly understands the use of "heart" in the verse to be the inner man, no confusion can stand, but if one demands the use of "heart" to mean only the pulminary organ for pumping blood throughout the body, the he is limiting his understanding and denying himself what God would have for all men.:tonofbricks:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Heb 4:12 (KJV1611 Edition):
For the word of God is quicke and powerfull,
and sharper then any two edged sword,
pearcing euen to the diuiding asunder of soule and spirit,
and of the ioynts and marrowe,
and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
There are two Greek words translated 'the word':
Logos - the living Word of God, the person: Messiah Jesus
Rhema - the written Word of God, the books: the Holy Bible
The term here is 'Logos', so it is speaking of Messiah Jesus.
Here is the entry from Strong's:
G3056
λόγος
logos
log'-os
From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication
a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty)
or motive; by extension a computation; specifically
(with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ):
- account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame,
X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question,
reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker,
speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me,
tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.
For the word of God is quicke and powerfull,
and sharper then any two edged sword,
pearcing euen to the diuiding asunder of soule and spirit,
and of the ioynts and marrowe,
and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
There are two Greek words translated 'the word':
Logos - the living Word of God, the person: Messiah Jesus
Rhema - the written Word of God, the books: the Holy Bible
The term here is 'Logos', so it is speaking of Messiah Jesus.
Here is the entry from Strong's:
G3056
λόγος
logos
log'-os
From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication
a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty)
or motive; by extension a computation; specifically
(with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ):
- account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame,
X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question,
reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker,
speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me,
tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Some say that Deut 32:13 is predictive of Israel
in the year 5766 AM (22 Sept 2006 - Sept 2007).
Deu 32:13 (KJV1611 Edition):
He made him ride on the high places of the earth,
that he might eate the increase of the fields,
and he made him to sucke hony out of the rocke,
and oyle out of the flintie rocke,
in the year 5766 AM (22 Sept 2006 - Sept 2007).
Deu 32:13 (KJV1611 Edition):
He made him ride on the high places of the earth,
that he might eate the increase of the fields,
and he made him to sucke hony out of the rocke,
and oyle out of the flintie rocke,