Dancing, Gambling, and Drinking

[quantumfaith]

You have to be careful of drinking and gambling............it might lead to dancing.

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Wasn't meant to be....... I though do enjoy alcohol, dancing & I do place bets now and again. So by these legalists reckoning, I'm going to hell. Well if thats what it takes! :thumbs:

Hell? No. Rehab? Maybe.

BTW..... Ive been known to listen to Rock & Roll! LOL

Me too. Don't know if my hearing loss is mainly due to 20 years of flying helicopters, or a similar length of time turning up the headphones way too loud.

 

[OldRegular]

OR
I think James is a book chalked full of practical tips for everyday living. He also clearly shows the relationship between faith and works. Great book !!!!!!

But sadly ignored because people create a conflict between he and Paul over Justification when none exists, that is, if one understands what both are teaching!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

But sadly ignored because people create a conflict between he and Paul over Justification when none exists, that is, if one understands what both are teaching!

Paul writes of vertical relationship, God to man. James writes of horizontal relationship, man to man. Amen!

 

[OldRegular]

... living on the edge! Judith has a good point!

It is making up doctrine according to what is comfortable to his or her life styles. Why else do we see churches that allow drinking festivals (such as Catholics who hold carnivals with beer gardens); or churches that permit same sex marriage and ordain homosexuals; or churches that lack strict dress codes, especially for women who come in with pants that are skin tight, and skirts that are beyond the mini-skirt ideas; or churches that allow bingo, or take their adult groups to places like Vegas or Indian casinos and call them day-outings; or churches that have ignored the need for water immersion baptism; or churches that teach catechism and offer membership cards in place of accepting Jesus as Savior; or churches that teach you can have anything you want if you have enough faith and give till it hurts; or churches that teach tongues is the only evidence of the filling of the Holy Ghost; or churches that allow astrology and spiritualism to be mixed into its theology and doctrines (reincarnation is one of the teachings); or churches that allow its members to smoke anywhere but inside the sanctuary.

I could go on, but there is a church out there for just about anyone who has a vice and doesn't want to face it or leave it behind them as they move along the Narrow Path towards richer forms of holiness!

No, Judith is spot on ... the church is living on the edge, and she will be judged accordingly, along with those who are leading and teaching loose doctrines to appease the vice within us!:thumbs:

A sad but true indictment of many groups pretending to be Churches. I understand that Church membership consists of sinners, but they are supposed to be regenerate sinners, and that makes a difference. The walk of a "true believer" is not simple and not easy but we do have a perfect example to follow. We love Paul's writing when he says:

Ephesians 2:8, 9
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

But too many of us fail to read the next verse:

10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Jesus Christ gave the example for His workmanship. I believe that includes correct doctrine as well as following a lifestyle that honors Jesus Christ!

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Logic trap

... flee from even the appearance of evil. 1Thess 5:22

Judith, there is a danger with using this verse as a justification for deciding what is evil.

To avoid the 'appearance of evil' requires that 'evil' first be identified. This leads to logical irregularities. For instance, to proclaim that no Christian should drink in order to 'avoid the appearance of evil'; one has already assumed drinking is evil. In this discussion, drinking has not been shown to be a sin unto itself. This is the logical fallacy of using the proposition as the conclusion. (It boils down to "I decided it is [evil or not-evil] before the discussion began.

I know drinking is a favorite activity to denounce, but that doesn't make it a sin. In fact, the Bible doesn't say it is, and has any number of righteous people drinking at one point or other without being branded as sinning. ("Drunkenness" on the other hand, is specifically proscribed.)

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Dude, I must protest!

It is making up doctrine according to what is comfortable to his or her life styles.

His or her - who?

Why else do we see churches that allow drinking festivals (such as Catholics who hold carnivals with beer gardens)

Is the problem they have beer on site, or they are Catholics?

Why else do we see churches that permit same sex marriage and ordain homosexuals

Not Catholics here, right? I know of one SoBap church (congregation) who allowed open homosexuals to be appointed to church offices (I don't think as pastor); that congregation was declared not part of the SoBap community. It has caused a split in the Anglican (Episcople) Church and the Lutheran Church.

Why else do we see churches that lack strict dress codes, especially for women who come in with pants that are skin tight, and skirts that are beyond the mini-skirt ideas

How about men who don't wear white shirts and ties? Or anyone who wears beach shorts and untucked shirts? Should we put a 'doorman' in place to inspect congregants as they enter?

Why else do we see churches that allow bingo, or take their adult groups to places like Vegas or Indian casinos and call them day-outings

Hmm bingo. 'Day outings?' Who does that? Even when I lived in PDSR California did I know of any church who did that. Bingo and the Indian Casino - or Caesar's Palace are equivalent?

Why else do we see churches that have ignored the need for water immersion baptism

Baptist churches that don't emphasis water immersion baptism? Where? Or are you referring the Church of Christ Meets Here, who require immersion as part of the salvation function?

Why else do we see churches that teach catechism and offer membership cards in place of accepting Jesus as Savior

Catechism comes from the Greek language and means 'to teach orally'. Traditionally - even in non Roman Catholic denominations - catechism is done by a formalized question and answer dialogue. It is a pretty good way to introduce new members to doctrine and essential theology. I always felt the Baptist Churches I attended to rather lack in teaching new members of essential doctrine as a specific systematic instruction period. Most all essential theology and doctrine was taught in Sunday School at one time or other; but it wasn't presented as a 'basics class'. At least not back when I was young.

Why else do we see churches that teach you can have anything you want if you have enough faith and give till it hurts

Televangelists? That one I can answer; greed!

Why else do we see churches that teach tongues is the only evidence of the filling of the Holy Ghost

Pentacostals, you mean? How about you tell us?

Why else do we see churches that allow astrology and spiritualism to be mixed into its theology and doctrines (reincarnation is one of the teachings)

Again, I am at a lost to understand to whom you refer. I don't know of any New Testament churches who support such ideas. I do know of some places who teach such things, but they have only a minimal lip service to Jesus.

Why else do we see churches that allow its members to smoke anywhere but inside the sanctuary.

Well, Dude, they can't smoke inside; state laws forbid smoking inside public access buildings most places. Smoking may be bad for the health, nasty smelling and a waste of money, but I don't consider it a sin.

No, Judith is spot on ... the church is living on the edge, and she will be judged accordingly, along with those who are leading and teaching loose doctrines to appease the vice within us!:thumbs:

Righteous Dude, your post seems to equate congregations or denominations who don't reject entry to women wearing a skirt too short for your approval with teaching reincarnation. Did I miss something? I find this particular post rather poorly thought out and judgmental. (I suppose that makes me judgmental as well.)

 

[Yeshua1]

reminds me of when the Supreme court addressed issue of pornography, and one Judge said that while he could not really give a legal definition on what it is, knew what it was when he saw it!

samee way about immodesty in church....

 

[agedman]

Drinking - sin. The Scriptures are clear on that.

Dancing - sin. The historical formula dancing (waltz, English country, Minuet,...) are NOT the dancing of the modern society nor of the over exuberant assembly in which intellectual decays into nothing but sensual.

Gambling - sin. The Scriptures are clear on that.

That some desire in this modern time to drink and call it righteous is shameful, and more so to equate the consumption of intoxicants in the Scriptures as comparable to what is offered in this modern time is just ignorance.

The same with dancing. There is no comparison to the dance of the Israeli in traditional Jewish festivals to that done by the worldly. That some would make them equal and comparable is shameful. Traditional Jewish dancing is NOT sexual undulating, nor do the men touch women.

The same with gambling. How dare the believer squander the blessings of God in such frivolity. What kind of stewardship over the lesser matters guarantees greater stewardship authority over more important matters? Shameful! To even suggest some spirit privilege in such an exercise is listening to the wrong spirit.

Label me as you will; however, in your own heart you will know that the believer is to give no place for the devil, is to bring every thought and action under control; that the believer is to treat the living encasement of the new creature, which was created in Christ Jesus, in which the Holy Spirit can give guidance, as a temple as a living example of Holiness.

No priest drank, danced, or gambled in the very Holy of Holies. Do you not know that Christ dwells in you just as the tabernacle of the wilderness? That the body is to be Holy, undefiled, and a living sacrifice?

These things should not even be up for debate among true believers.

It is incredible that some actually buy into "moderation" as some hallmark standard of being righteous is shameful.

In my youth, I would never have ever thought that Baptists would be so consumed with the world and doing as the world that I would actually have to consider if remaining a Baptist was compromising with Scriptural principles as one would being a Catholic.

Watch how some will attempt all manner of rebuke, discredit, and demeaning - and look at what the display of arrogance and self intellectualism at attempting to rationalize and excuse.

 

[Yeshua1]

Drinking - sin. The Scriptures are clear on that.

Dancing - sin. The historical formula dancing (waltz, English country, Minuet,...) are NOT the dancing of the modern society nor of the over exuberant assembly in which intellectual decays into nothing but sensual.

Gambling - sin. The Scriptures are clear on that.

That some desire in this modern time to drink and call it righteous is shameful, and more so to equate the consumption of intoxicants in the Scriptures as comparable to what is offered in this modern time is just ignorance.

The same with dancing. There is no comparison to the dance of the Israeli in traditional Jewish festivals to that done by the worldly. That some would make them equal and comparable is shameful. Traditional Jewish dancing is NOT sexual undulating, nor do the men touch women.

The same with gambling. How dare the believer squander the blessings of God in such frivolity. What kind of stewardship over the lesser matters guarantees greater stewardship authority over more important matters? Shameful! To even suggest some spirit privilege in such an exercise is listening to the wrong spirit.

Label me as you will; however, in your own heart you will know that the believer is to give no place for the devil, is to bring every thought and action under control; that the believer is to treat the living encasement of the new creature, which was created in Christ Jesus, in which the Holy Spirit can give guidance, as a temple as a living example of Holiness.

No priest drank, danced, or gambled in the very Holy of Holies. Do you not know that Christ dwells in you just as the tabernacle of the wilderness? That the body is to be Holy, undefiled, and a living sacrifice?

These things should not even be up for debate among true believers.

It is incredible that some actually buy into "moderation" as some hallmark standard of being righteous is shameful.

In my youth, I would never have ever thought that Baptists would be so consumed with the world and doing as the world that I would actually have to consider if remaining a Baptist was compromising with Scriptural principles as one would being a Catholic.

Watch how some will attempt all manner of rebuke, discredit, and demeaning - and look at what the display of arrogance and self intellectualism at attempting to rationalize and excuse.

Dancing between spouses perfect acceptable, as long as not doing the "bump and grind!"
gambling is a sin per scriptures...

Drinking to excess, to getting drunk sinning, NO verses state one cannot drink though, just to drinking to the point it controls you, instead of you controlling it!

 

[salzer mtn]

As I read and have read most of the post since I have joined about what a Christian can do and it is not sin I visualize a updated version of a Christian dancing down the road to rock n roll music, half naked with dice in one hand and a can of beer in the other pulling on a cigarette.

 

[Yeshua1]

As I read and have read most of the post since I have joined about what a Christian can do and it is not sin I visualize a updated version of a Christian dancing down the road to rock n roll music, half naked with dice in one hand and a can of beer in the other pulling on a cigarette.

Why not instead picture a christian husband/wife, out in a nice restraurant deciding to take in some dancing, and enjoying a glass of wine, and watching super bowl on big screen?