David Wilkerson: An Urgent Message

[Victorious]

Give us a time frame for "about to happen" so we can hold him accountable for his false teaching and you accountable for spreading it. Fair enough?

Did God give a specific time, or did He say "No man knows the day or the hour?" Hmmm....

In the book of Revelation, was there a specific time or "in the last days"?

When the soundest of preachers gives this warning I take note. God determines the time.

 

[Tom Butler]

That is baloney. Our church is mostly elderly members, as far as I know God fearing, Christ-like people. For some to get in front of the congregation, and do nothing but put members down for no reason or the work of the church is not what is needed. He came across as a self centered, attention getter, with no evidence of the love of God. Like I said, he will not be back, and that is being nice about it.

I have to disagree with my fellow deacon brother here. I would judge him on his total work, just on one sermon. His preaching makes me uncomfortable at times, but that's my fault. I'll take his preaching over Joel O's any day.

 

[donnA]

Pre civil war

naw, I was just a baby then, I don't have much recall of that time.

 

[donnA]

Around twenty years ago I read a book (can't remember the title) by David Wilkerson suggesting that an economic calamity was soon to hit the United States and it was going to be very very bad. And, while the economy isn't fairing too well right now I would not say that it is a calamity. Needless to say, I don't put too much stock into Wilkerson's prophetic proclamations. He probably needs to stick to preaching and teaching the Word and stay away from prophecy.

I don't think I would consider 20 years to be 'soon'. And since it does happen occasionally in this country, it was bound to happen again here. Not much prophecy there.

 

[Victorious]

I don't think I would consider 20 years to be 'soon'. And since it does happen occasionally in this country, it was bound to happen again here. Not much prophecy there.

Okay...we disagree. I'll keep my eyes open and keep growing my vegetable garden.

 

[preachinjesus]

Seems to me that if The Holy Spirit gave David Wilkerson the warning, you'd think he would also tell him what the calamity was going to be.

I think Isaiah and Jeremiah got fairly specific, didn't they.

Yeah this is where I am. Throughout Scripture the use of prophecy is usually tied to explicit details that, though confusing and vague to hearers contemporary of the prophet, make sense in the end.

This "prophecy" is lacking in that regard.

 

[Victorious]

They are discussing the same thing on another site I just joined with a friend. I thought this was a very balanced response from a member:

Saints, I am not an alarmist, but yesterday David Wilkerson of Times Square Church issued a warning statement that he aske be given to all Christians.

For those of you who do not know him or his work, he was the man who wrote The Cross and the Switchblade, his story about ministering to street gangs in NYC many years ago. He is a man of God and now is pastor of Times Square Church. His warning is that soon, very soon there will be an outbreak of civil war, rioting, fires and violence in most every city in America, and in many parts of the world. He warns us to make sure our hearts are prepared and on the physical side, to make sure we have at least a months worth of dry food stored up if God so leads.

I say this not to scare any. Is it true? We shall see. BUT, either way, we are facing this scenario sooner or later, and I do believe it is sooner. We as Christians may think we will breeze right thru any minor tribulation but frankly I doubt it. A faith built on our strength is not enough to get us through tough times. It is time we get down on our knees and really examine the depths of our faith. Talking a good talk about trusting God is not so easy if in reality we have been trusting ourselves. Will we really be as strong in faith if we are out on the street with our families and no way to support them? I pray we are. I urge all of you who call upon the name of the Lord to make sure your heart is His, 100% and that you are truly leaning upon Him for strength and salvation no matter what we have to endure until He comes. To those who want to hide their heads in the sand and "wish it away", I want to just remind you of Lot's wife. This is not our home.

If this is a "false alarm", I do not apologize. Consider it a fire drill, preceding the real thing. Things will change over the next 3-6 months like you would never have believed.

Here is a link with his press release. Do with it what you will but please take time to read it. I know this man of God and he does not do things like this. I have a feeling he has heard from the Lord. You be the judge. May we all grow up into him, and quickly.


Here is Dave Wilkerson on false manifestations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrpW6Xctg8Q

 

[saturneptune]

They are discussing the same thing on another site I just joined with a friend. I thought this was a very balanced response from a member:

Saints, I am not an alarmist, but yesterday David Wilkerson of Times Square Church issued a warning statement that he aske be given to all Christians.

For those of you who do not know him or his work, he was the man who wrote The Cross and the Switchblade, his story about ministering to street gangs in NYC many years ago. He is a man of God and now is pastor of Times Square Church. His warning is that soon, very soon there will be an outbreak of civil war, rioting, fires and violence in most every city in America, and in many parts of the world. He warns us to make sure our hearts are prepared and on the physical side, to make sure we have at least a months worth of dry food stored up if God so leads.

I say this not to scare any. Is it true? We shall see. BUT, either way, we are facing this scenario sooner or later, and I do believe it is sooner. We as Christians may think we will breeze right thru any minor tribulation but frankly I doubt it. A faith built on our strength is not enough to get us through tough times. It is time we get down on our knees and really examine the depths of our faith. Talking a good talk about trusting God is not so easy if in reality we have been trusting ourselves. Will we really be as strong in faith if we are out on the street with our families and no way to support them? I pray we are. I urge all of you who call upon the name of the Lord to make sure your heart is His, 100% and that you are truly leaning upon Him for strength and salvation no matter what we have to endure until He comes. To those who want to hide their heads in the sand and "wish it away", I want to just remind you of Lot's wife. This is not our home.

If this is a "false alarm", I do not apologize. Consider it a fire drill, preceding the real thing. Things will change over the next 3-6 months like you would never have believed.

Here is a link with his press release. Do with it what you will but please take time to read it. I know this man of God and he does not do things like this. I have a feeling he has heard from the Lord. You be the judge. May we all grow up into him, and quickly.


Here is Dave Wilkerson on false manifestations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrpW6Xctg8Q

Mr Wilkerson has the same Holy Spirit as do I, all my fellow church members, and our pastor. No such message has been observed. Is Mr Wilkerson some kind of special character in communication with the Holy Spirit? Some kind of secret knowledge? Isn't that called gnostic in the Bible?

If there are civil riots and all sorts of calamities about to break out, it is because God has planned it that way. What does his work for the Lord have to do with knowing how to tell the future? Is it because he is famous in the eyes of the world? I am sure if God has something to tell us, it will come in some way through the local church.

The last thing we need right now is a nut case shouting doomsday from the mountain top.

 

[Victorious]

Mr Wilkerson has the same Holy Spirit as do I, all my fellow church members, and our pastor. No such message has been observed. Is Mr Wilkerson some kind of special character in communication with the Holy Spirit? Some kind of secret knowledge? Isn't that called gnostic in the Bible?

If there are civil riots and all sorts of calamities about to break out, it is because God has planned it that way. What does his work for the Lord have to do with knowing how to tell the future? Is it because he is famous in the eyes of the world? I am sure if God has something to tell us, it will come in some way through the local church.

The last thing we need right now is a nut case shouting doomsday from the mountain top.

I think the actual question here is have the gifts of the Spirit ceased? Would we recognize the real deal if we saw it, heard it, or are we so conditioned to relate it to the false that we close the door on the genuine? Is Pastor Wilkerson special? No. But the Lord distributes to each differently for the benefit of the church:

"And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?"
(1 Corinthians 12:28-30 NASB)

My position is that I have never seen true tongues being spoken in spite of all the babblings of my Pentecostal days, and I certainly don't consider the demonic manifestations of "Toronto Blessing" genuine either, but I do believe there were isolated incidents throughout history where God did manifest this spiritual gift. Did the gift of helps cease? Teachers? Then what about miracles?

I admit I just don't know. But I won't condemn ministers for giving warnings to the church if they are otherwise sound and godly. I won't necessarily believe them, but I will weigh what they say and test the spirit, if possible.

And no, this is not the definition of "gnosticism." It is called a prophetic word. Gnosticism deals with hidden "so-called knowledge" pertaining to doctrine and esoteric teachings.

The early church did have those who prophesied warnings (such as Agabus) and I believe that God can still warn His people today and I don't consider those types of things adding to scripture. Not sure of Wilkerson but I know of others also that share his belief. It doesn't take a genius to know that we have fallen so far down the path of morality and truth, that "God would have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah if He didn't judge this nation," as they say. I know I'm in the minority, but I cannot close the door on the possibility that God will warn us by His Holy Spirit either.

 

[EdSutton]

Take a look at Victorious' reply.

Welcome to the Baptist Board. :wavey:

Ed

 

[saturneptune]

I think the actual question here is have the gifts of the Spirit ceased?

No, the question is what do we think of Mr Wilkerson's warning direct and live from the Holy Spirit.

Would we recognize the real deal if we saw it, heard it, or are we so conditioned to relate it to the false that we close the door on the genuine? Is Pastor Wilkerson special? No. But the Lord distributes to each differently for the benefit of the church:

"And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?"
(1 Corinthians 12:28-30 NASB)

Yes, we would recongnize its genuineness. Although all cannot do all gifts, the Spirit in each of us would testify they are real.

My position is that I have never seen true tongues being spoken in spite of all the babblings of my Pentecostal days, and I certainly don't consider the demonic manifestations of "Toronto Blessing" genuine either, but I do believe there were isolated incidents throughout history where God did manifest this spiritual gift. Did the gift of helps cease? Teachers? Then what about miracles?

It is very possible that some gifts have ceased since the early church in Acts. I do not know. I have seen teaching, preaching, even prophecy, but tongues, no. If tongues are spoken, is there an interpreter present like the Bible says so everyone else knows what God is saying.

I admit I just don't know. But I won't condemn ministers for giving warnings to the church if they are otherwise sound and godly. I won't necessarily believe them, but I will weigh what they say and test the spirit, if possible.

A prophet of God is 100% correct at all times. Not 90,80. As I understand the situation, this guy has made rants in the past that have not come true. As said above, why not specific as to what, where and when. Why, because its a bunch of baloney.

And no, this is not the definition of "gnosticism." It is called a prophetic word. Gnosticism deals with hidden "so-called knowledge" pertaining to doctrine and esoteric teachings.

If Mr Wilkerson had received a word from the Lord, it would have been exact and specific. So, he is either a fraud or a gnostic, as he is keeping some of the knowledge to himself.

The early church did have those who prophesied warnings (such as Agabus) and I believe that God can still warn His people today and I don't consider those types of things adding to scripture. Not sure of Wilkerson but I know of others also that share his belief. It doesn't take a genius to know that we have fallen so far down the path of morality and truth, that "God would have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah if He didn't judge this nation," as they say. I know I'm in the minority, but I cannot close the door on the possibility that God will warn us by His Holy Spirit either.

Yes, there were plenty of prophets throughout the Bible. Yes, God is warning us today. We as a nation deserve God's wrath if anyone ever did. We have been the most blessed nation in history. At the same time, we have gone beyond sinning to rubbing God's nose in it by enacting laws that encourage sinning, such as abortion and gay marriage. At least 50 years ago people were ashamed of it and tried to hide it. One of the reasons I do not believe a thing this guy says is that why do we deserve a special warning? We have been warned.

We do not disagree on the warning, just the messenger.

 

[Victorious]

No, the question is what do we think of Mr Wilkerson's warning direct and live from the Holy Spirit.Yes, we would recongnize its genuineness. Although all cannot do all gifts, the Spirit in each of us would testify they are real.

It is very possible that some gifts have ceased since the early church in Acts. I do not know. I have seen teaching, preaching, even prophecy, but tongues, no. If tongues are spoken, is there an interpreter present like the Bible says so everyone else knows what God is saying.

A prophet of God is 100% correct at all times. Not 90,80. As I understand the situation, this guy has made rants in the past that have not come true. As said above, why not specific as to what, where and when. Why, because its a bunch of baloney.

If Mr Wilkerson had received a word from the Lord, it would have been exact and specific. So, he is either a fraud or a gnostic, as he is keeping some of the knowledge to himself.

Yes, there were plenty of prophets throughout the Bible. Yes, God is warning us today. We as a nation deserve God's wrath if anyone ever did. We have been the most blessed nation in history. At the same time, we have gone beyond sinning to rubbing God's nose in it by enacting laws that encourage sinning, such as abortion and gay marriage. At least 50 years ago people were ashamed of it and tried to hide it. One of the reasons I do not believe a thing this guy says is that why do we deserve a special warning? We have been warned.

We do not disagree on the warning, just the messenger.

And I have not made up my mind on that. I don't know what prophecies he's made that have failed - just the timing was off. I will reserve my judgement on that one.

 

[saturneptune]

I have to disagree with my fellow deacon brother here. I would judge him on his total work, just on one sermon. His preaching makes me uncomfortable at times, but that's my fault. I'll take his preaching over Joel O's any day.

I would listen to neither, and neither would be my pastor.

 

[donnA]

Okay...we disagree. I'll keep my eyes open and keep growing my vegetable garden.

For what exactly, a failed prophecy, soon does not equal 20 years.

 

[EdSutton]

Okay...we disagree. I'll keep my eyes open and keep growing my vegetable garden.

Out of curiosity, do you raise any 'heirloom' veggies?

Ed

 

[annsni]

John Piper's response

 

[Victorious]

For what exactly, a failed prophecy, soon does not equal 20 years.

Actually, soon can equal many things!

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,..." (Revelation 1:1 NASB)

And how many years did Noah prophesy before the flood came? Would you have considered him a false prophet? The Prophets sometimes cried out for years until the catastrophe occurred. King Manasseh was warned many years before Jerusalem fell, but it did fall. Sometimes God extends His grace until His children had time to prepare. Is it so strange that God would send a warning to His children now so that we can prepare our hearts? I don't believe so.

This is not an issue to divide over as far as I'm concerned. I understand your view on the gifts - until recently, I was undecided (John McArthur is one of my favorite preachers), however, I can't be comfortable with dismissing everything that isn't written down word for word if it lines up with scripture.

I find myself speaking for prophetic utterings although I don't believe 99% of what I hear. But I think it's just as dangerous to deny it all (and mistake God's voice for the devil's) and in my spirit I must leave that 1% open for the possibilty that God will use miraculous means to bring some through the coming storms. I have never felt right about "the perfect" being the closed canon of scripture.

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known."
(1 Corinthians 13:12 NASB)

If the Perfect is the closed canon, Paul never realized the fulfillment of this in his time.

I sometimes believe we've been derailed by the imitation for the purpose of closing the door on the real. Satan has always come against God's people by imitation and decpetion. Not saying Pastor Wilkerson is correct, but it makes sense to me based on my understanding of biblical principles. Judgement is bound to come upon a nation where every foul bird has landed and His name is blasphemed all day long in every way by almost every person who can speak.

 

[ccrobinson]

AN EARTH-SHATTERING CALAMITY IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. IT IS GOING TO BE SO FRIGHTENING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO TREMBLE

Oh No!!!!



*runs and hides behind the couch, curling up in a fetal position, sucking my thumb, crying for my mommy*

Actually, Mr. Wilkerson, spare me the fear-mongering. The Bible tells me that God will provide all my needs and I assume that he's going to keep that promise even in an earth-shattering calamity.

 

[Victorious]

It's interesting. Some people on this thread have said Wilkerson wasn't specific enough. John Piper says he's too specific. Good article though.

 

[Victorious]

Oh No!!!!



*runs and hides behind the couch, curling up in a fetal position, sucking my thumb, crying for my mommy*

Actually, Mr. Wilkerson, spare me the fear-mongering. The Bible tells me that God will provide all my needs and I assume that he's going to keep that promise even in an earth-shattering calamity.

Bottom line.:godisgood: