Death before the age of accountability

[Yeshua1]

Either God directed Satan, or the passages are simply contradictory.

God used satan to do what the devil wantd, in order to rest David...

 

[Yeshua1]

You actually didn't. You just referred to the Chronicles passage.

Either both God and Satan are involved, or there is a contradiction in the text.

Not really, as one gives th story from the viewpoiont from earth, other from heaven!

 

[Yeshua1]

The very act of reading the Bible is interpretive. Trying to figure out what the words mean is interpretive. Trying to understand how the words relate to other words in the text is interpretive.

That's the case with any written document, and the Bible is no exception. It's just rather challenging to do, as it is a collection of documents from different time periods, written by different authors with different backgrounds.

Case in point: what does the Bible mean by "faith"? James and Paul use the same word differently. So we have to interpret even if we never leave the text.

Paul an James use it same way, its just that Paul shows us how faith in Jesus saves us, whil James shows us how asaved hould now acting!

 

[Yeshua1]

What's the will of God? That we reflect His agape love, right? Instead our humanity reflects a u-turn agape....The essence of sin is "the love of self".

The will of God is that we exist for the purpose to honor and glorify Him, not ourselves...

 

[MennoSota]

Yes He is...and in His sovereignty He has allowed "the love of self" (iniquity) to develop so that all intelligent beings throughout His universe can witness the results of setting aside God's agape love in favor of fallen Lucifer's self-love.

You are not making sense, other than agreeing to God's sovereignty. The rest is a bit bizarre. I haven't seen another Christian write like you are writing.

 

[MennoSota]

Because God is sovereign and because He as temporarily allowed iniquity to develop, God has assumed the blame for sin as if He did these things Himself. He does this until "the day of atonement".

Principle: God sees and describes Himself as doing what He does not prevent.

"The anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel and He moved David . . . to . . . number Israel and Judah (2 Sam. 24:2).

????
God blames himself???

You are calling God imperfect and weak.

 

[Yeshua1]

????
God blames himself???

You are calling God imperfect and weak.

God cannot take the blame for anything, as all of His ways are right!

 

[AndThisGospel]

You are not making sense, other than agreeing to God's sovereignty. The rest is a bit bizarre. I haven't seen another Christian write like you are writing.

That's because I don't follow the crowd.

 

[AndThisGospel]

????
God blames himself???

You are calling God imperfect and weak.

Please quote me correctly or don't quote me at all. Now, what did I say? Did I say that God is to blame or did I say God assumes the blame until the day of atonement?

In this case God assumes the responsibility for the entrance of sin even though He was not its author. He assumes the blame because He created Lucifer who later became Satan.

Theologically this has to do with the two goats of Leviticus sixteen, but that's another topic...

 

[AndThisGospel]

Either both God and Satan are involved, or there is a contradiction in the text.

God said He did it, but God said too that Satan tempted David to number Israel. Clearly God didn't tempt David. Why?

When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone" James 1:13

If the Bible seems to contradict then that's our problem. Spiritual things are spiritually understood. God's word cannot contradict otherwise is wouldn't be of God.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Let me give you one that's even clearer:

So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the Lord, because he did not keep the word of the Lord, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance, but he did not inquire of the Lord; therefore, He [God] killed him, and turned the kingdom over to David, the son of Jesse (1 Chron. 10:13, 14).

God said that He killed Saul.

Now, let's look at exactly happened to Saul:

Saul said to his armorbearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it” . . . But his armor bearer would not. . . . Therefore, Saul took a sword and fell on it. . . . So Saul . . . died (1 Chron. 10:4, 6).

Saul committed suicide. Why? “Draw your sword and run me through; otherwise these uncircumcised will come and abuse me.”

The point is Saul was losing the battle because he had apostatized from God. God was not with Saul in battle because He had forsaken Saul.

God assumes the blame for Saul's death as if God had killed Saul Himself. If Saul hadn't committed apostasy God would have been with Saul in battle against the Philistines and Saul would have lived....

Again, God assumed the blame because ultimately He created Lucifer who later became "the adversary" (Satan). He assumes the blame until "the day of atonement" where the actual blame for sin is placed on the Satan....

 

[StefanM]

God said He did it, but God said too that Satan tempted David to number Israel. Clearly God didn't tempt David. Why?

When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone" James 1:13

If the Bible seems to contradict then that's our problem. Spiritual things are spiritually understood. God's word cannot contradict otherwise is wouldn't be of God.

Or maybe it actually does contradict.

 

[MennoSota]

Please quote me correctly or don't quote me at all. Now, what did I say? Did I say that God is to blame or did I say God assumes the blame until the day of atonement?

In this case God assumes the responsibility for the entrance of sin even though He was not its author. He assumes the blame because He created Lucifer who later became Satan.

Theologically this has to do with the two goats of Leviticus sixteen, but that's another topic...

You still see God as trapped in time. The fall and the atonement happen simultaneously with God who lives outside of time.

God does not assume blame or take the blame. God the Son receives God the Father's judgment and wrath, which should fall upon you and me.

As I read your comments, it seems that your theology is poor.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Or maybe it actually does contradict.

Then, perhaps, I should follow you?

When I hear folks, such as yourself, say that the Bible contradicts itself or has error, I know immediately that person has set himself up as an infallible source and that he is attempting to draw off disciples to himself.

Acts 20:30 "Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth (why?) in order to draw away disciples after them."

I'll stay with the Bible and not men's pretentiousness.

 

[StefanM]

Then, perhaps, I should follow you?

When I hear folks, such as yourself, say that the Bible contradicts itself or has error, I know immediately that person has set himself up as infallible source and that he is attempting to draw off disciples to himself.

Acts 20:30 "Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth (why?) in order to draw away disciples after them."

I make no claim to infallibility and have no intention of drawing off disciples to myself.

 

[AndThisGospel]

God the Son receives God the Father's judgment and wrath, which should fall upon you and me..

Totally false. Deity cannot die - it's impossible. Besides, you are the sinner. The law demands the death of the sinner, not the death of the sinless one.

Ez 18: 19 Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. 20“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

 

[AndThisGospel]

I make no claim to infallibility and have no intention of drawing off disciples to myself.

If you are a Christian you should not be attacking the Bible. If you aren't, well, that's why you are attacking....

 

[AndThisGospel]

Here's another:

And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharoah which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go” (Exodus 4:21).

But when Pharoah saw that there was relief, he (Pharoah) hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said . . . But Pharoah hardened his heart at this time also; neither would he let the people go (Exodus 8:14, 32).

 

[AndThisGospel]

Here's another:

I [God] will strike the Shepherd (Christ). . . . We esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God (Mark 114:27; Isaiah 53:4).

My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? (Mark 15:34).

 

[StefanM]

If you are a Christian you should not be attacking the Bible. If you aren't, well, that's why you are attacking....

Ya got me. I'm actually a Sith Lord. I'm just upset about cutting off my son's hand.