Death before the age of accountability

[AndThisGospel]

The Jews did not want Jesus just to die...that is why they insisted that he be crucified. Why?

Go to the "book of the law":

"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he is to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day (for he that is hanged on a tree is cursed of God).” Deut. 21:23

That meant to the Jews the irrevocable curse of God, which to us would be the second death, “good-bye” to life forever with no hope of a resurrection.

“Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, (how?) being made a curse for us: for it is written: (now he quotes Deut. 21:23) Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree” (Gal 3:13).

 

[AndThisGospel]

Adam's fallen life indwelt with iniquity...what the heck is that supposed to mean?

Mark 7:1 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.... 23 I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

In the creation, Adam was made in God's image, after His likeness. (1:27) This cannot refer to Adam's physical form because "God is Spirit". (John 4:24) It means that Adam perfectly reflected God's agape love - "a love that is not self-seeking" (1 Cor 13:5)

But after the fall Adam's son was no longer in the image of God, but rather the image of his father:

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth"

What happened at the fall of mankind? Adam's agape, which was selfless, took a u-turn. Instead of living for others only he became selfish and self-centered. The Hebrew for this word is "iniquity". Therefore agape bent-back is self-love.

Because of Adam we are born knowing only self-love.The primary meaning of iniquity is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” (Romans 7:23; 8:2}. It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin (Romans 3:9-12; 7:14).

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Let's add in #5 - God knows all. He knows the heart.

That is obvious, everyone knows that.

He can cause a dead man to rise from the dead

Yes, he can.

and He can cause a dead heart to respond to the gospel.

No, Ann, he Can't.

If it's "dead" it's "dead".
It can't respond to anything.

That's so by definition.. A "dead heart" is dead and can't respond in any way.....
it's "dead".
That's what "dead" means.

"All" means "All".
and
"Dead" means "dead".

He will do what is absolutely right for every soul

Yes.

and no one is unjustly in hell and no one is unjustly in heaven.

Yes...............
But let's allow no nonsense about "dead" things or hearts or persons DOING anything. They do absolutely NOTHING...
That's what "Dead" means.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Let's add in #5 - God knows all. He knows the heart. He can cause a dead man to rise from the dead and He can cause a dead heart to respond to the gospel. He will do what is absolutely right for every soul and no one is unjustly in hell and no one is unjustly in heaven.

No, Ann, he Can't.

If it's "dead" it's "dead".
It can't respond to anything.

Really? Really?? This is God we're talking about, right? Are you really saying that God cannot cause a dead heart to come to life and respond to the Gospel? Try Ephesians 2:4-5.[/QUOTE]

 

[annsni]

That is obvious, everyone knows that.

Yes, he can.

No, Ann, he Can't.

If it's "dead" it's "dead".
It can't respond to anything.

That's so by definition.. A "dead heart" is dead and can't respond in any way.....
it's "dead".
That's what "dead" means.

"All" means "All".
and
"Dead" means "dead".

Yes.

Yes...............
But let's allow no nonsense about "dead" things or hearts or persons DOING anything. They do absolutely NOTHING...
That's what "Dead" means.

I'm sorry but according to Ephesians 2, God can certainly cause a dead heart to respond to the gospel.

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Really? Really?? This is God we're talking about, right? Are you really saying that God cannot cause a dead heart to come to life and respond to the Gospel? Try Ephesians 2:4-5.

Yes, he can cause it to COME TO LIFE.....

But, if it's "come to life" than it is no longer dead is it?

Like I said....."dead" things do nothing.

I suggest you read:
Ephesians 2:4-5

 

[HeirofSalvation]

I'm sorry but according to Ephesians 2, God can certainly cause a dead heart to respond to the gospel.

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

YUP, I've read it, and it demonstrates what I just said.
The DEAD heart isn't responding to the gospel is it?
Look at your own bolded portion......he "MADE IT ALIVE" didn't he?

If it's been "made alive" then, it isn't dead now is it?

Just like I said, a "dead" heart does nothing, and you posted the Scripture which states as much.
I fully understand Ephesians 2 Ann, and it demonstrates just what I said, dead hearts do nothing because they are dead.

I suggest you read:
Ephesians 2: 4-5

 

[utilyan]

Let's add in #5 - God knows all. He knows the heart. He can cause a dead man to rise from the dead and He can cause a dead heart to respond to the gospel. He will do what is absolutely right for every soul and no one is unjustly in hell and no one is unjustly in heaven.

Too powerless to convey free will, Too dumb to teach a person not to sin.




Anyone with a lick of kindness stands to defend children the only folks having trouble with this are the ones who by mere obligation follow an evil version of God rather then the humble request of love.

 

[Yeshua1]

How many know how many infants have been murdered through abortion since 1973? Answer: 58,586,256*

None of these infants reached the age of accountability, which means none of them knew of Christ and were able to exercise faith in Him.

What does Calvinism do with this fact?

* http://www.nrlc.org/uploads/factsheets/FS01AbortionintheUS.pdf

Prefer to say how the Bible deals it this issue, and would say tha God will save all of those babies bring them to Heaven, NOT due to tem not being sinners, but due to God provoding themeans to save them in the Cross of Christ!

Same answer tha Baptist calvinists would give!

 

[kitkatjoe]

Don't hold on to tightly to a non biblical term-accountability,and assume you can put an age on it. You are going where no human can go what your asking is Gods involvement. We are not God. As for Calvin, he was a man, and we can argue over and over what he meant as applying it to your question. God is a God of mystery and mercy. We will understand it better by and by.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Yeshua1]

The Jews did not want Jesus just to die...that is why they insisted that he be crucified. Why?

Go to the "book of the law":

"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he is to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day (for he that is hanged on a tree is cursed of God).” Deut. 21:23

That meant to the Jews the irrevocable curse of God, which to us would be the second death, “good-bye” to life forever with no hope of a resurrection.

“Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, (how?) being made a curse for us: for it is written: (now he quotes Deut. 21:23) Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree” (Gal 3:13).

God wanted/determined that Jesus would die on the Cross, and used wcked people actions to bring it to pass!

 

[Yeshua1]

Too powerless to convey free will, Too dumb to teach a person not to sin.




Anyone with a lick of kindness stands to defend children the only folks having trouble with this are the ones who by mere obligation follow an evil version of God rather then the humble request of love.

You like to mock God?

 

[Yeshua1]

Really? Really?? This is God we're talking about, right? Are you really saying that God cannot cause a dead heart to come to life and respond to the Gospel? Try Ephesians 2:4-5.

[/QUOTE]
If God cannot do that, then all of us here are lost!

 

[Yeshua1]

Mark 7:1 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.... 23 I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

In the creation, Adam was made in God's image, after His likeness. (1:27) This cannot refer to Adam's physical form because "God is Spirit". (John 4:24) It means that Adam perfectly reflected God's agape love - "a love that is not self-seeking" (1 Cor 13:5)

But after the fall Adam's son was no longer in the image of God, but rather the image of his father:

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth"

What happened at the fall of mankind? Adam's agape, which was selfless, took a u-turn. Instead of living for others only he became selfish and self-centered. The Hebrew for this word is "iniquity". Therefore agape bent-back is self-love.

Because of Adam we are born knowing only self-love.The primary meaning of iniquity is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” (Romans 7:23; 8:2}. It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin (Romans 3:9-12; 7:14).

Sinners are all spiritually, period, and ONLY those God made alive in Chrsit are alive again!

 

[AndThisGospel]

God wanted/determined that Jesus would die on the Cross, and used wcked people actions to bring it to pass!

The law demands your death. Jesus wasn't the sinner...how could He die instead of you?

Let's say you murder someone. You go before the judge and he sentences you to death. Your lawyer steps up and says, "judge, I'll die in his place". What is the judge going to say to your lawyer? "You aren't the murderer, your his lawyer and the law says that the murderer must die."

 

[Yeshua1]

The law demands your death. Jesus wasn't the sinner...how could He die instead of you?

Let's say you murder someone. You go before the judge and he sentences you to death. Your lawyer steps up and says, "judge, I'll die in his place". What is the judge going to say to your lawyer? "You aren't the murderer, your his lawyer and the law says that the murderer must die."

God had to stay just and loving, so in order to appease His wrath and also freely save us, Jesus HAD to die in our place and take wrath of God!

 

[AndThisGospel]

....in order to appease His wrath and also freely save us, Jesus HAD to die in our place and take wrath of God!

In other words God is mad as heck and He wants to kill us sinners, but Jesus steps in and says "Kill Me instead"?

 

[Yeshua1]

In other words God is mad as heck and He wants to kill us sinners, but Jesus steps in and says "Kill Me instead"?

God hates all sin, as He is Holy, and He who sins must die/pay the penalty for sin, but Jesus came to die in our place and pay thar sin penalty owed God now!

 

[AndThisGospel]

God hates all sin, as He is Holy, and He who sins must die/pay the penalty for sin, but Jesus came to die in our place and pay thar sin penalty owed God now!

Let's follow your theology to its natural conclusion:

If God hates sin (and He does) and demands that the sinner dies and allows Jesus to die in our place, then Jesus was a sinner.

No law will condemn the innocent in place of the guilty...no law, especially God's law.

Try again.

 

[Yeshua1]

Let's follow your theology to its natural conclusion:

If God hates sin (and He does) and demands that the sinner dies and allows Jesus to die in our place, then Jesus was a sinner.

No law will condemn the innocent in place of the guilty...no law, especially God's law.

Try again.

That is the glory of the Cross, as He who knew no sin become the sin offeringt o Godi n our place!
Deny that truth, and you wouldhave a fale/anothter Gospel!