Death before the age of accountability

[AndThisGospel]

God is Sovereign. He creates humans with physical defects so that He might use them for His glory. Recall the disciples asking Jesus if the man's parents had sinned because the man was blind from birth. Jesus response was no.

That would be a sadistic god who, out of his own ego, caused physical defects for his own personal lime light.

In His sovereignty Jesus, who is God, didn't override this man's defects from birth so that He might heal his blindness as a witness that He was the Son of God.

No, they were not flawed because of sin. They were fearfully and wonderfully made by God, exactly as He intended, so they might be a witness to his goodness.

Yes, they were fearfully and wonderfully made by God in Adam (Gen 2:7/Acts 17:26/Ps 139:13-16) God made Adam before sin entered the world. If God creates individuals, this side of the fall, then God is designing sinners . That would make Him the author of sin and death instead of Satan.

 

[MennoSota]

That would be a sadistic god who, out of his own ego, caused physical defects for his own personal lime light.

In His sovereignty Jesus, who is God, didn't override this man's defects from birth so that He might heal his blindness as a witness that He was the Son of God.



Yes, they were fearfully and wonderfully made by God in Adam (Gen 2:7/Acts 17:26/Ps 139:13-16) God made Adam before sin entered the world. If God creates individuals, this side of the fall, then God is designing sinners . That would make Him the author of sin and death instead of Satan.

That is a Sovereign God who weaves his will using all colors in ways that we as created beings do not understand. Calling God sadistic for choosing to act in ways you do not understand places yourself as the ultimate king and Jesus as your little servant who must act as you determine he should act.

God willfully and sovereignly chose to allow Job's children to be killed. God chose to sovereignly allow all Job's property to be destroyed. God chose to sovereignly allow Job to suffer physical illness. It was God's choice to bring these calamities on Job. Job was faced with following his wife's advice - curse God and die - or choosing to worship God when God brings both good and evil.

We are servants of the most high God. We do not call God names when he sovereignly chooses to bring hardship and suffering into our lives. We do not know the purpose or reason why he chooses to bring these things into our lives. We do know that all things work for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose. We know that in everything give thanks for this is God's will for us.

No, we never dare to call God sadistic because he ordains the valley of the shadow of death as part of our pathway. We acknowledge that God ordained three children to be created and He, by his sovereign will, created them with this genetic disease, just as he creates others with six toes or other unique design. Satan has nothing to do with God's design. Satan does not hold some part of God hostage. When God chooses to do something, it is all for His sovereign purpose and our opinion of God's purpose is irrelevant, short-sighted and childish. We worship a God who is far above us and whom we do not question when He ordains suffering and sorrow. We accept both the good and the bad. We trust God's sovereign hand and declare that God is good, all the time.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Calling God sadistic for choosing to act in ways you do not understand places yourself as the ultimate king and Jesus as your little servant who must act as you determine he should act..

Here's what I said: "That would be a sadistic god who, out of his own ego, caused physical defects for his own personal lime light."

Note the small "g". I wasn't referring to the God I know in the Bible. I was referring to the god of your own making.

 

[MennoSota]

Here's what I said: "That would be a sadistic god who, out of his own ego, caused physical defects for his own personal lime light."

Note the small "g". I wasn't referring to the God I know in the Bible. I was referring to the god of your own making.

You may couch it anyway you wish. If you wish to deny God's sovereign choices in the life of Job or God's sovereign choice in creating the man without sight, that is your choice. Just don't tell me that what I shared is not in the Bible. I have pointed out God's sovereign and ordained choice in creating as shared in the Bible. What you do with that is up to you.

 

[AndThisGospel]

You may couch it anyway you wish. If you wish to deny God's sovereign choices in the life of Job or God's sovereign choice in creating the man without sight, that is your choice. Just don't tell me that what I shared is not in the Bible. I have pointed out God's sovereign and ordained choice in creating as shared in the Bible. What you do with that is up to you.

I believe that the subject of this thread has morphed into another....I'll start another topic. I'll simply call it "Job"

 

[MennoSota]

I believe that the subject of this thread has morphed into another....I'll start another topic. I'll simply call it "Job"

You claimed that God was not responsible for creating people with disabilities. You blamed Satan for any creation you judged as not perfect. You said that the creator would be sadistic if he purposely created a person without sight, just so he could receive glory from that creation. You said that about my nephews and niece. You claimed that the God of the Bible was not like that. I showed you that He does ordain suffering for His glory. You now make light of Job in order to avoid God's word so that you aren't confronted with being wrong.

Now, to bring this full circle, God creates humans. He determines the length of their lives. He determines whom he will save and whom he will not (read Romans 9). He brings the little children to heaven when he appoints them to die. We see all of this in God's word and we trust that God's word is true.

 

[AndThisGospel]

You claimed that God was not responsible for creating people with disabilities.

Bingo. God created mankind when He created Adam. Even Eve came from Adam. Adam was created in "the likeness of God". Since God is Spirit and Adam was flesh & blood this isn't speaking of Adam's form, but his likeness to God's righteousness. Adam was created immortal & sinless.

When Adam sinned the humanity within him was polluted with self-love. That is why David, in speaking his birth, said: 'Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

If God creates infants then God is creating sinners. That would make God responsible for sin & death, instead of Satan.

He determines whom he will save and whom he will not (read Romans 9)

God has saved all men in One man, Christ. But not all will accept this truth.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Yes, they were fearfully and wonderfully made by God in Adam (Gen 2:7/Acts 17:26/Ps 139:13-16) God made Adam before sin entered the world. If God creates individuals, this side of the fall, then God is designing sinners . That would make Him the author of sin and death instead of Satan.

Let's look at my quotes:

Gen 2:7 "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."

Act 17:26 "And he (God) made from one (Adam) every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth.

Ps 139:13-16 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; 16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

God created you and me when He created Adam. Adam fell and the only thing he could pass to his offspring was a life that had sinned and a life in slavery to sin. God doesn't create a life
every time a woman becomes pregnant. That biology was set into motion at the creation.

 

[AndThisGospel]

God created you and me when He created Adam. Adam fell and the only thing he could pass to his offspring was a life that had sinned and a life in slavery to sin. God doesn't create a life every time a woman becomes pregnant. That biology was set into motion at the creation.

Please note Ps 51:15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth....

Just as Adam was made from the earth (i.e., the dust of the ground) our frame was also made then too. God created all men in one man, Adam. When God created Adam He created us.

In Adam we were made "in the likeness of God". In Adam we were holy and blameless. In Adam we were immortal and sinless, but Adam sinned and because of his sin we received his fallen life at birth. That life is sinful and in slavery to indwelling iniquity. This God did not create!

 

[AndThisGospel]

Please note Ps 51:15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth....

Just as Adam was made from the earth (i.e., the dust of the ground) our frame was also made then too. God created all men in one man, Adam. When God created Adam He created us.

This concept can be seen elsewhere:

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in your womb, and two manner of people shall be born of you; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Heb 7:9 We can say that through Abraham even Levi, who receives tithes, has paid tithes, 10 for he was yet in the body of his father when Melchizedek met him.

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that one died for all, therefore all died;

 

[MennoSota]

Bingo. God created mankind when He created Adam. Even Eve came from Adam. Adam was created in "the likeness of God". Since God is Spirit and Adam was flesh & blood this isn't speaking of Adam's form, but his likeness to God's righteousness. Adam was created immortal & sinless.

When Adam sinned the humanity within him was polluted with self-love. That is why David, in speaking his birth, said: 'Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

If God creates infants then God is creating sinners. That would make God responsible for sin & death, instead of Satan.



God has saved all men in One man, Christ. But not all will accept this truth.

Sin nature has nothing to do with how God forms a human when He chooses to create a human.
God may create a vessel for his glory or he may create a vessel for destruction (read Romans 9).

Your last sentence makes me think you are a Unitarian/Universalist. The idea that all are saved and atoned for by Yeshua's sacrifice is not taught in the Bible. It may be a warm fuzzy thought, but it's not biblical.

 

[MennoSota]

Let's look at my quotes:

Gen 2:7 "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."

Act 17:26 "And he (God) made from one (Adam) every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth.

Ps 139:13-16 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; 16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

God created you and me when He created Adam. Adam fell and the only thing he could pass to his offspring was a life that had sinned and a life in slavery to sin. God doesn't create a life
every time a woman becomes pregnant. That biology was set into motion at the creation.

God sovereignly ordains whether there will or will not be conception. God sovereignly ordains whether a person will be born with a genetic anomaly or not. God sovereignly ordains how long each human will live and when they will die. God sovereignly ordains who will be saved and who will not be saved.

Sovereign Ruler means the King makes the choice over whom he will adopt into His family.

 

[MennoSota]

This concept can be seen elsewhere:

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in your womb, and two manner of people shall be born of you; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Heb 7:9 We can say that through Abraham even Levi, who receives tithes, has paid tithes, 10 for he was yet in the body of his father when Melchizedek met him.

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that one died for all, therefore all died;

Let's look at my quotes:

Gen 2:7 "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."

Act 17:26 "And he (God) made from one (Adam) every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth.

Ps 139:13-16 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; 16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

God created you and me when He created Adam. Adam fell and the only thing he could pass to his offspring was a life that had sinned and a life in slavery to sin. God doesn't create a life
every time a woman becomes pregnant. That biology was set into motion at the creation.

Please note Ps 51:15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth....

Just as Adam was made from the earth (i.e., the dust of the ground) our frame was also made then too. God created all men in one man, Adam. When God created Adam He created us.

In Adam we were made "in the likeness of God". In Adam we were holy and blameless. In Adam we were immortal and sinless, but Adam sinned and because of his sin we received his fallen life at birth. That life is sinful and in slavery to indwelling iniquity. This God did not create!

Do you often argue with yourself? [emoji41]

 

[AndThisGospel]

God may create a vessel for his glory or he may create a vessel for destruction (read Romans 9).

Heretical.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Sin nature has nothing to do with how God forms a human when He chooses to create a human.

That statement goes against scripture:

Ps 51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption....53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[utilyan]

You claimed that God was not responsible for creating people with disabilities. You blamed Satan for any creation you judged as not perfect. You said that the creator would be sadistic if he purposely created a person without sight, just so he could receive glory from that creation. You said that about my nephews and niece. You claimed that the God of the Bible was not like that. I showed you that He does ordain suffering for His glory. You now make light of Job in order to avoid God's word so that you aren't confronted with being wrong.

Now, to bring this full circle, God creates humans. He determines the length of their lives. He determines whom he will save and whom he will not (read Romans 9). He brings the little children to heaven when he appoints them to die. We see all of this in God's word and we trust that God's word is true.

If you say GOD killed Jesus Christ, you win.

 

[MennoSota]

That statement goes against scripture:

Ps 51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption....53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

You are taking those verses and making it seem that the flesh God forms us with is evil and wicked. That aproach would make dead bodies as evil as living ones. I suggest you review these verses to consider that our sin nature is different than our physical body.

 

[MennoSota]

If you say GOD killed Jesus Christ, you win.

God the Father ordained God the Son's death on the cross. God the Son said, "Not my will be done, but your will be done.", in relation to the cross.

 

[AndThisGospel]

I suggest you review these verses to consider that our sin nature is different than our physical body.

I'll let Paul help you:

Rom 7:18 "For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh (sinful nature (NIV)); for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not."

Rom 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man (i.e., the converted mind), 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind (i.e., my converted mind/heart) and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[AndThisGospel]

God the Father ordained God the Son's death on the cross.

• God the Father didn't murder Christ. The Romans & Jews, through Satan, had Jesus placed on a wooden cross.
• God the Son didn't die. The Son of Man died the 2nd death.