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Death penalty debate fueled by 'bad Ohio execution' and firing squad legislation

kyredneck

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Hanging works. So does the guillotine.

I've never been able to figure how it couldn't have a deterrent effect on kids witnessing a public execution with the understanding, 'if you do what they did the same will happen to you'. I'm NOT convinced that it didn't/wouldn't serve as a very effective deterrent.

Even public 'caning of the buttocks' as they practice in Indonesia has to have an effect. It has to.

Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. Ecc 8:11
 
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Crabtownboy

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As I told you before, non sequitur. And yet you keep using it.Given that virtually every governor in the country has quietly directed DNA evidence to be investigated, particularly in the oldest cases, you're quite pessimistic. If there are innocents remaining, they will be identified. Don't hold your breath. Most of those found guilty, actually are.None. But I don't worry about it, because neither you nor anyone else can point to an innocent person actually having been executed in this country in the last 100 years. Oh, I know the people you read and believe claim to have "proof" of some, but they don't. The stories of the one or two cases they can somewhat call into question are spun by them, leaving out facts or making wild-hair guesses as to truth that can't really be known. The one truly questionable case was the result of racial bias, but even that one can't be shown beyond a shadow of a doubt to have been a case of innocent men being executed.

How many investigations have been conducted to see if a person already executed was actually innocent?

There have been cases where people were executed and later another person has come forward admitting they committed the crime. So the innocent were killed in those cases.

I will check into this. I am not sure you are correct on this one. If one, only one is found, will you change you mind?

DNA evidence will prove a man innocent, providing he actually is innocent. But you're running out of inmates on death row who don't have the security of DNA evidence. The longest-living death row inmate has been awaiting execution for 23 years. That was 1991. DNA testing has been valid evidence since the early 80s, and has been perfected to the point that you soon won't have an argument, because of the many that have been tested nearly as many have been found to be guilty as have been released. But you'll think of another one, I'm sure.

Of course DNA proves some are quilty and that some are innocent. That is a given. From the experience the last number of years it is obvious that there are innocent folk on death row ... as well as guilty. Some of innocent will never be proven innocent as evidence will not be given or found. Others who are guilty will be proven guilty from future DNA tests.

But as long as it is possible that there are innocent people on death row, then capital punishment should not be allowed.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
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3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. And wouldest thou have no fear of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise from the same:
4 for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him that doeth evil. Ro 13
 

Crabtownboy

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Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

What about the man who did not shed blood, but was found guilty of shedding blood?

If he is executed is the executioner guilty of shedding blood? Should the executioner be punished for shedding the blood of an innocent person?
 

church mouse guy

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What about the man who did not shed blood, but was found guilty of shedding blood?

If he is executed is the executioner guilty of shedding blood? Should the executioner be punished for shedding the blood of an innocent person?

The state would be guilty of manslaughter under those circumstances, wouldn't they? The jury and the judge would be the ones. The Supreme Court Justices who signed the order that women could murder their babies without due process in each case are guilty of murder.

If you think that you can come to Indiana and murder a bunch of people and then spend the rest of your life in some cozy cell in Michigan City, Indiana, and work on your law degree from Indiana University you are probably right but even Democrat Evan Bayh did execute a few people so you are playing Vegas style odds if you think that you can get away with murder in Indiana.

The question that applies to you is do you think that you should be allowed to evade the death penalty for murder?
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
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What about the man who did not shed blood, but was found guilty of shedding blood?

What about those innocent 'thousands extra' whose blood is shed when the death sentence is NOT imposed?

God and the Death Penalty
by Pastor Bob Enyart

"Jeffrey Dahlmer raped, killed and ate parts of at least thirteen men. As punishment, the government was planning to feed, clothe, educate, medicate, entertain, and legally represent him for the rest of his life. Families of his victims would pay taxes, in part, to keep Dahlmer comfortable, warm in winter and cool in summer. That type of punishment should scare the dickens out of other mass murderers. Interrupting the governments plans for Dahlmer however, an inmate beat the cannibal to death in prison.

Some oppose the death penalty on practical grounds, arguing that it is not a deterrent. However, the U.S. Supreme Court had reinstituted the death penalty in July of 1976 after having struck down all state death penalty statutes almost exactly four years earlier. During those four years without the death penalty there were about 12,000 more murders as compared to the four years prior to 1972, an increase of 19 percent, and more than 10,000 additional families who had raised a child who then became a murderer.

In countries like Saudi Arabia, which enforce a swift and certain death penalty, violent crime is rare. Singapore and Los Angeles have equivalent populations, yet in one year Singapore had 58 murders (most followed by swift execution) while Los Angeles had 1,063. Criminal sub-cultures like the Mafia show that the death penalty is a powerful deterrent even among career criminals, since few will ever double-cross their superiors, fearing the repercussions.

Others oppose the death penalty on moral grounds. The "morality" arguments of atheists are not persuasive because if there is no God, then there is no absolute morality, only arbitrary and subjective opinion. The anti-death-penalty morality arguments of some Christians, on the other hand, are persuasive to many. They base their arguments on statements made by Jesus Christ and therefore many listen attentively.

These "moral" opponents of the death penalty often intimidate good people into shying away from execution. Many Christians claim society should forgive criminals and instruct them to "go and sin no more." Ideas have consequences and the popularity of this idea parallels a huge sustained crime epidemic.

There is a right way to deter criminals and to end the crime epidemic. That deterrence, however, does not lie in telling Dahlmer to "go and eat no more.".."
 
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How many investigations have been conducted to see if a person already executed was actually innocent?
You're claiming there have been innocent men/women executed, yet you don't even know how many studies have been done? That calls into question your veracity in this discussion.
There have been cases where people were executed and later another person has come forward admitting they committed the crime. So the innocent were killed in those cases.
Evidence, please. Post links. I just did a Google search. Nothing.
I will check into this.
You should have done that before you posted.
I am not sure you are correct on this one. If one, only one is found, will you change you mind?
No, I won't change my mind, because I know which one you will find. The information in the more prominent postings has been deliberately skewed by anti-death penalty advocates. You have to dig to find the truth, which you won't like.
But as long as it is possible that there are innocent people on death row, then capital punishment should not be allowed.
As long as it is possible people can die from cancer, they shouldn't eat, drink, smoke or breathe. Think that will happen? And its far more likely that will happen than that an innocent man will be found on death row.
 
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Aaron

Member
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If you think Crab-Mao_boy's arguments are real, think again. If I were to design a strategy to bring down a strong nation, a big part of that would be to undermine justice and morality. That is the left's goal in their opposition to capital punishment and their promotion of Sodom.

Once the tables turn, you watch how these same leftists will call for the executions of the enemies of the state.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
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Isn't it true that a little over a million deaths of innocents a year is acceptable to you?

...ooouuuu, CTB is pro-abortion and harping about collateral damage with captital punishment? That's about as wrong as it gets.
 
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http://www.innocenceproject.org

Convictions of the wrong person, happen


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-death-penalty

Convictions of the wrong person happen in death penalty cases
I'm not debating that. The wrong person is convicted -- rarely, but it happens -- at all levels of the justice system. Justice being blind, the wronged are often freed. As your links don't prove any of them were executed, but instead were exonerated, they support my viewpoint, not yours. You nor CTB nor anyone else can find a valid case in which the wrong person has been executed.

Consider this: Your second link shows 143 exonerations of wrongfully convicted men who were on death row, but walked free. How many wrongfully executed men does it list?

NONE!!

Think there might be a reason for that? Hint: There haven't been any!!
 
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Crabtownboy

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http://www.innocenceproject.org

Convictions of the wrong person, happen


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-death-penalty

Convictions of the wrong person happen in death penalty cases

Thanks go2church.

Another where it is show that 8 were executed and later were found to be innocent:


1. Cameron Todd Willingham—In 1992, Willingham was convicted of arson murder in Texas. He was believed to have intentionally set a fire that killed his three kids. In 2004, he was put to death. Unfortunately, the Texas Forensic Science Commission later found that the evidence was misinterpreted, and they concluded that none of the evidence used against Willingham was valid. As it turns out, the fire really was accidental.

2. Ruben Cantu—Cantu was 17 at the time the crime he was alleged of committing took place. Cantu was convicted of capital murder, and in 1993, the Texas teen was executed. About 12 years after his death, investigations show that Cantu likely didn’t commit the murder. The lone eyewitness recanted his testimony, and Cantu’s co-defendant later admitted he allowed his friend to be falsely accused. He says Cantu wasn’t even there the night of the murder.

3. Larry Griffin—Griffin was put to death in 1995 for the 1981 murder of Quintin Moss, a Missouri drug dealer. Griffin always maintained his innocence, and now, evidence seems to indicate he was telling the truth. The first police officer on the scene now says the eyewitness account was false, even though the officer supported the claims during the trial. Another eyewitness who was wounded during the attack was never contacted during the trial, and he says Griffin wasn’t present at the crime scene that night.
4. Carlos DeLuna—In 1989, DeLuna was executed for the stabbing of a Texas convenience store clerk. Almost 20 years later, Chicago Tribune uncovered evidence that shows DeLuna was likely innocent. The evidence showed that Carlos Hernandez, a man who even confessed to the murder many times, actually did the crime.

5. David Wayne Spence—Spence was put to death in 1997 for the murder of three teenagers in Texas. He was supposedly hired by a convenience store clerk to kill someone else, but he allegedly killed the wrong people by mistake. The supervising police lieutenant said “I do not think David Spence committed this crime.” The lead homicide detective agreed, saying “My opinion is that David Spence was innocent. Nothing from the investigation ever led us to any evidence that he was involved.”

6. Jesse Tafero—In 1976, Tafero was convicted of murdering a state trooper. He and Sonia Jacobs were both sentenced to death for the crime. The main evidence used to convict them was testimony by someone else who was involved in the crime, ex-convict Walter Rhodes. Rhodes gave this testimony in exchange for a life sentence. In 1990, Tafero was put to death. Two years later, his companion Jacobs was released due to a lack of evidence…the same evidence used to put Tafero to death.

7 & 8. Thomas Griffin and Meeks Griffin— The oldest case on this list dates back to 1915. The Griffin brothers, two black men, were convicted of the murder of a white man. The reason they were convicted is because Monk Stevenson, another black man suspected of committing the murder, pointed to the brothers as having been responsible. He later admitted the reason he blamed them is because they were wealthy, and he assumed they had the money to beat the charges. The Griffin brothers were completely innocent, but they were put to death nonetheless.


Cited from: 8 People Who Were Executed and Later Found Innocent - NakedLaw by Avvo.com http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/8-pe...d-and-later-found-innocent.html#ixzz2r35DsaSJ
 

go2church

Active Member
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It was briefly mentioned how some are pro-choice and anti-death penalty. I do think this an inconsistent stand on the issues. As inconsistent as being pro-life and pro-death penalty.
 

webdog

Active Member
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It was briefly mentioned how some are pro-choice and anti-death penalty. I do think this an inconsistent stand on the issues. As inconsistent as being pro-life and pro-death penalty.
I don't see how being pro capital punishment and pro life (keeping unborn babies from being murdered) are inconsistent.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It was briefly mentioned how some are pro-choice and anti-death penalty. I do think this an inconsistent stand on the issues. As inconsistent as being pro-life and pro-death penalty.

16 There are six things which Jehovah hateth; Yea, seven which are an abomination unto him:
17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood;
18 A heart that deviseth wicked purposes, Feet that are swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that uttereth lies, And he that soweth discord among brethren. Pro 6

So who is it that's intentionally shedding the innocent blood?
 

go2church

Active Member
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I'm not debating that. But as your links don't prove any of them were executed, but instead were exonerated, they are irrelevant. You nor CTB nor anyone else can find a valid case in which the wrong person has been executed.

Stunning to think that in your mind multiple wrongful convictions all throughout the justice system somehow stop and have never happened in death penalty cases. You really think no one has ever been convicted and put to death wrongly?
 

Crabtownboy

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I don't see how being pro capital punishment and pro life (keeping unborn babies from being murdered) are inconsistent.

Both are taking lives and has been shown there are those who have been found innocent after spending years on death row. And, as it has been shown, there are those who have been executed who were later found innocent.

So, how can you support the taking of innocent lives through capital punishment?

If you can, how many innocents killed through capital punishment are too many?

I have said numerous times that I am anti-abortion and anti-capital punishment. I am pro-life. Come join me and not be hypocritical about life.
 

go2church

Active Member
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If someone has been put to death because they were wrongly convicted, is not that innocent blood?

You're willing to bet that flawed human beings who make up our justice system never get it wrong, never kill someone that doesn't deserve to be killed?

I'm not making that bet.
 
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