Death penalty debate fueled by 'bad Ohio execution' and firing squad legislation

[Crabtownboy]

I'm not debating that. The wrong person is convicted -- rarely, but it happens -- at all levels of the justice system. Justice being blind, the wronged are often freed. As your links don't prove any of them were executed, but instead were exonerated, they support my viewpoint, not yours. You nor CTB nor anyone else can find a valid case in which the wrong person has been executed.

Consider this: Your second link shows 143 exonerations of wrongfully convicted men who were on death row, but walked free. How many wrongfully executed men does it list?

NONE!!

Think there might be a reason for that? Hint: There haven't been any!!

You must have missed my earlier post, so I will post it again sor your information. 8 who were executed and later were found to be innocent:

1. Cameron Todd Willingham—In 1992, Willingham was convicted of arson murder in Texas. He was believed to have intentionally set a fire that killed his three kids. In 2004, he was put to death. Unfortunately, the Texas Forensic Science Commission later found that the evidence was misinterpreted, and they concluded that none of the evidence used against Willingham was valid. As it turns out, the fire really was accidental.

2. Ruben Cantu—Cantu was 17 at the time the crime he was alleged of committing took place. Cantu was convicted of capital murder, and in 1993, the Texas teen was executed. About 12 years after his death, investigations show that Cantu likely didn’t commit the murder. The lone eyewitness recanted his testimony, and Cantu’s co-defendant later admitted he allowed his friend to be falsely accused. He says Cantu wasn’t even there the night of the murder.

3. Larry Griffin—Griffin was put to death in 1995 for the 1981 murder of Quintin Moss, a Missouri drug dealer. Griffin always maintained his innocence, and now, evidence seems to indicate he was telling the truth. The first police officer on the scene now says the eyewitness account was false, even though the officer supported the claims during the trial. Another eyewitness who was wounded during the attack was never contacted during the trial, and he says Griffin wasn’t present at the crime scene that night.
4. Carlos DeLuna—In 1989, DeLuna was executed for the stabbing of a Texas convenience store clerk. Almost 20 years later, Chicago Tribune uncovered evidence that shows DeLuna was likely innocent. The evidence showed that Carlos Hernandez, a man who even confessed to the murder many times, actually did the crime.

5. David Wayne Spence—Spence was put to death in 1997 for the murder of three teenagers in Texas. He was supposedly hired by a convenience store clerk to kill someone else, but he allegedly killed the wrong people by mistake. The supervising police lieutenant said “I do not think David Spence committed this crime.” The lead homicide detective agreed, saying “My opinion is that David Spence was innocent. Nothing from the investigation ever led us to any evidence that he was involved.”

6. Jesse Tafero—In 1976, Tafero was convicted of murdering a state trooper. He and Sonia Jacobs were both sentenced to death for the crime. The main evidence used to convict them was testimony by someone else who was involved in the crime, ex-convict Walter Rhodes. Rhodes gave this testimony in exchange for a life sentence. In 1990, Tafero was put to death. Two years later, his companion Jacobs was released due to a lack of evidence…the same evidence used to put Tafero to death.

7 & 8. Thomas Griffin and Meeks Griffin— The oldest case on this list dates back to 1915. The Griffin brothers, two black men, were convicted of the murder of a white man. The reason they were convicted is because Monk Stevenson, another black man suspected of committing the murder, pointed to the brothers as having been responsible. He later admitted the reason he blamed them is because they were wealthy, and he assumed they had the money to beat the charges. The Griffin brothers were completely innocent, but they were put to death nonetheless.


Cited from: 8 People Who Were Executed and Later Found Innocent - NakedLaw by Avvo.com http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/cr

We will never know how many others as investigations are very rarely done concerning people who were executed.

The youngest person in the US to be executed was 14. His case is under serious review as new evidence may show him innocent. This is not a DNA case. It happened in the '40's.

 

[webdog]

Both are taking lives and has been shown there are those who have been found innocent after spending years on death row. And, as it has been shown, there are those who have been executed who were later found innocent.

So, how can you support the taking of innocent lives through capital punishment?

If you can, how many innocents killed through capital punishment are too many?

I have said numerous times that I am anti-abortion and anti-capital punishment. I am pro-life. Come join me and not be hypocritical about life.

In an imperfect world there will be wrongful convictions. This is not enough to ignore the vast majority that are rightfully convicted. Using your logic we should release everyone from prison as there are some behind bars that have been wrongfully convicted. God is against murder and requires a life for a life. Come join me in supporting Scripture.

 

[webdog]

If someone has been put to death because they were wrongly convicted, is not that innocent blood?

You're willing to bet that flawed human beings who make up our justice system never get it wrong, never kill someone that doesn't deserve to be killed?

I'm not making that bet.

Was anyone ever wrongfully convicted in the OT? Did Gods law become obsolete due to human error?

 

[Crabtownboy]

In an imperfect world there will be wrongful convictions. This is not enough to ignore the vast majority that are rightfully convicted. Using your logic we should release everyone from prison as there are some behind bars that have been wrongfully convicted. God is against murder and requires a life for a life. Come join me in supporting Scripture.

I have never advocated releasing everyone. I do advocate doing away with capital punishment as we know people who were innocent have been killed. We also know that 100+ have been released when proven innocent.

How many innocent deaths are ok with you?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Stunning to think that in your mind multiple wrongful convictions all throughout the justice system somehow stop and have never happened in death penalty cases.

It isn't opinion or guesswork, it's knowledge. You're arguing so many logical fallacies, I can't keep track of them all. You assume something to be true because you believe it could happen. The sun could explode, too. You want us to drop everything and start researching alternative life sources for Earth?

You really think no one has ever been convicted and put to death wrongly?

I know it has never happened. You could prove me wrong, if there were any evidence, but I note that so far neither you nor CTB have done anything except argue from speculation and emotion.

If someone has been put to death because they were wrongly convicted, is not that innocent blood?

It would be, if anyone had been. But while you and CTB keep raising this specter, you've offered no proof -- nor can you find any -- that would show it has happened.

You're willing to bet that flawed human beings who make up our justice system never get it wrong, never kill someone that doesn't deserve to be killed?

I'm not making that bet.

I'm not betting anything. If you want to stop meting out punishment because of something that might happen, get ready for anarchy. It's insane thinking.

 

[church mouse guy]

The authoritarian governments of the twentieth century murdered tens of millions of their own citizens in the name of progress.

The left would not execute the Stalins and Mussolinis of the world.

The question is why bother to arrest murderers since it is expensive to house them and let them work on their Indiana University law degrees while on death row. Why not just send murderers to Bloomington, Indiana, to attend Indiana Law School. It is a liberal university and it would be a lot cheaper than a cell in Michigan City, Indiana, although I think that we now have a modern facility somewhere else.

 

[go2church]

In an imperfect world there will be wrongful convictions. This is not enough to ignore the vast majority that are rightfully convicted. Using your logic we should release everyone from prison as there are some behind bars that have been wrongfully convicted. God is against murder and requires a life for a life. Come join me in supporting Scripture.

That didn't take long - oh, you're against the death penalty so you must want everyone to be set free. What complete and total nonsense, that by the way does not follow "logically" as you claim. Being opposed to the death penalty doesn't mean being against lawful imprisonment of wrongdoers.

So Old Testament over Jesus, when it means we get to kill someone? Is that the hermeneutic we're going with now?

 

[webdog]

I have never advocated releasing everyone. I do advocate doing away with capital punishment as we know people who were innocent have been killed. We also know that 100+ have been released when proven innocent.

How many innocent deaths are ok with you?

You are being inconsistent.

Law: death penalty for murder. Prison time for rape.

You: release everyone from death row due to human error. Do not release everyone convicted of rape due to human error.

If someone should be released from death row due to human error, why do you maintain they should live in prison for life still? If there are innocent people in prison (and there are), to be consistent with your position everyone should be released at the expense of the innocents.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The question is why bother to arrest murderers since it is expensive to house them and let them work on their Indiana University law degrees while on death row. Why not just send murderers to Bloomington, Indiana, to attend Indiana Law School. It is a liberal university and it would be a lot cheaper than a cell in Michigan City, Indiana, although I think that we now have a modern facility somewhere else.

From conviction to hanging, a murderer in the Old West could expect about three days to pass.

 

[church mouse guy]

I have never advocated releasing everyone. I do advocate doing away with capital punishment as we know people who were innocent have been killed. We also know that 100+ have been released when proven innocent.

How many innocent deaths are ok with you?

Well, why don't you say what you think would be the proper punishment for you yourself for murder? Surely, leftists should not be subject to the same law as the rest of us.... Do you think that Mussolini should have been executed?

 

[webdog]

That didn't take long - oh, you're against the death penalty so you must want everyone to be set free. What complete and total nonsense, that by the way does not follow "logically" as you claim. Being opposed to the death penalty doesn't mean being against lawful imprisonment of wrongdoers.

So Old Testament over Jesus, when it means we get to kill someone? Is that the hermeneutic we're going with now?

Usually when inconsistencies are exposed anger follows. Thank you for cementing that fact.

 

[kyredneck]

If someone has been put to death because they were wrongly convicted, is not that innocent blood?

It's not INTENTIONALLY shedding innocent blood. Abortion on the other hand is just that.

You're willing to bet that flawed human beings who make up our justice system never get it wrong, never kill someone that doesn't deserve to be killed?

You're willing to accept the alternative, the far much greater increase in murders, when it's not imposed?

I'm not making that bet.

Fortunately you're not calling the shots.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

So Old Testament over Jesus ... ?

What makes you think the New Testament teaches anything different than the Old Testament?

 

[go2church]

It isn't opinion or guesswork, it's knowledge. You're arguing so many logical fallacies, I can't keep track of them all. You assume something to be true because you believe it could happen. The sun could explode, too. You want us to drop everything and start researching alternative life sources for Earth?I know it has never happened. You could prove me wrong, if there were any evidence, but I note that so far neither you nor CTB have done anything except argue from speculation and emotion.It would be, if anyone had been. But while you and CTB keep raising this specter, you've offered no proof -- nor can you find any -- that would show it has happened.I'm not betting anything. If you want to stop meting out punishment because of something that might happen, get ready for anarchy. It's insane thinking.

Perhaps you would like to revise this statement?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Perhaps you would like to revise this statement?

Why in the world would I want to do that? You haven't posted anything remotely proving your point.

 

[kyredneck]

I would like to know just what Scripture that you use to say that Jesus ended the death penalty. Jesus said that He came to fulfill the Law, not overthrow it. The commandment was given to Noah, long before Moses, to put murderers to death. Nowhere does it say that Jesus overthrew what He told Noah to do in Genesis 9.

Furthermore, it is time to stop doing sociological surveys on murderers and just execute them upon conviction.

If someone has been put to death because they were wrongly convicted, is not that innocent blood?

You're willing to bet that flawed human beings who make up our justice system never get it wrong, never kill someone that doesn't deserve to be killed?

I'm not making that bet.

Lol! So what exactly is the side you're debating for? You seem to be arguing out of both sides of your mouth! Are you for or against?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Why in the world would I want to do that? You haven't posted anything remotely proving your point.

It appears you are ignoring my two posts showing 8 innocent people who were executed.

Is that number of innocents executed acceptable to you? It isn't to me!

 

[kyredneck]

It appears you are ignoring my two posts showing 8 innocent people who were executed.

Is that number of innocents executed acceptable to you? It isn't to me!

It seems you are ignoring my post that during the four years the feds banned capital punishment there were 12,000 more murders as compared to the four years prior, an increase of 19 percent.

Is that number of innocents murdered acceptable to you?

But then again if you're pro-abortion this is a totally moot point anyway, sheesh.

 

[church mouse guy]

It appears you are ignoring my two posts showing 8 innocent people who were executed.

Is that number of innocents executed acceptable to you? It isn't to me!

You have proven yourself very good at asking questions, but you are ignoring questions from several people directly to you.

Let me try again to get an answer from you. Suppose that you arrive in Indiana and go on a murder spree. Supposing that we are able to convict you here. What punishment should we give you, knowing that you are who you are?

 

[Crabtownboy]

You have proven yourself very good at asking questions, but you are ignoring questions from several people directly to you.

Let me try again to get an answer from you. Suppose that you arrive in Indiana and go on a murder spree. Supposing that we are able to convict you here. What punishment should we give you, knowing that you are who you are?

Whatever the law in Indiana says.

Now, what about the 8 innocent people who were executed. Is that ok with you? How many is too many?