Death Penalty for Children?

[HankD]

Personally Matt, I would be content to have this boy shut off from society for the rest of his natural life (then again I'm not his victim's parent) and let God have the final say as He will anyway.

Israel in the wilderness had no prisons. It's difficult to maintain a prison for a nomadic peoples and no provision was made for the Hebrews in the Law for a prison (other than the cities of refuge for manslaughter) upon their entering the land.

A true "life sentence" IMO is a type of death sentence and I do support this concept.

Still that does not negate the fact that our God is a consuming fire and will execute wrath (as Paul says) upon all evil-doers.

HankD

 

[just-want-peace]

Far from being soft, we indicate by not executing children that we are civilised; the moment we start frying children, we cease being civilised and lose the plot.

Too many people (AND Christians) take the part of the Scripture that says "GOD IS LOVE" and assume that no matter the sins, He will just put His arms around everybody and sing KUM BAH YAH in a big huggy session.

You people who believe this better read the whole Scripture; you can be forgiven, but that DOES NOT negate the consequences of your sin.

 

[Matt Black]

So what is God? Hate?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[HankD]

So what is God? Hate?

God is love who hates sin.

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

HankD

 

[Matt Black]

Hates sin, check. Hates the sinner and wants to see him swing? No cigar.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[corinne]

Originally posted by C4K:
We may have discussed a similar topic in the not to distant past.

This came up in a new thread.

Should a 12 year old child receive the death penalty if he murders an eight year old?

Nobody should get the death penalty. Period.

Corinne

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Can we make that the topic of a new thread if you desire?

This thread is on the topic of death penatly for children.

 

[corinne]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Nope. As much as you would like to blame society or his mommy and daddy for him being a murderer, he is the one who put his hands around the girl's neck and murdered her, not his parents. Some kids are just evil and it has nothing to do with their parents. I know it is not common, but there are good parents out there who have evil kids. Unless you can prove that his parents sent him over there to kill that girl, they should not carry any guilt whatsoever. BTW, I would shoot the rotwieler, and not the owners.

Joseph Botwinick

If the child's sin is reason enough for you to put him to death, why would the sin of rape (or incest) resulting in a pregnancy not be erased (by a legal first trimester abortion)?

Corinne

 

[liebeskind]

Originally posted by corinne:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Nope. As much as you would like to blame society or his mommy and daddy for him being a murderer, he is the one who put his hands around the girl's neck and murdered her, not his parents. Some kids are just evil and it has nothing to do with their parents. I know it is not common, but there are good parents out there who have evil kids. Unless you can prove that his parents sent him over there to kill that girl, they should not carry any guilt whatsoever. BTW, I would shoot the rotwieler, and not the owners.

Joseph Botwinick

If the child's sin is reason enough for you to put him to death, why would the sin of rape (or incest) resulting in a pregnancy not be erased (by a legal first trimester abortion)?

Corinne </font>[/QUOTE]Corinne, I think you hit the nail square on its heads.

Ron

 

[dianetavegia]

If the child's sin is reason enough for you to put him to death, why would the sin of rape (or incest) resulting in a pregnancy not be erased (by a legal first trimester abortion)?

Corinne

A legal first trimester abortion is still murder in the eyes of God. We are to honor God's law over man's law.

Two wrongs do NOT make a right, Corinne.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Corinne, the child that is conceived in a rape is not the person who inflicted the harm to its mother.

It would be like killing your child if your husband beats you. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[HankD]

Hates sin, check. Hates the sinner and wants to see him swing? No cigar.

Proverbs 16
4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

HankD

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Sorry Hank, but I am not making the connection between the justice of God and Georgia's death penalty laws.

 

[HankD]

Sorry Hank, but I am not making the connection between the justice of God and Georgia's death penalty laws.

I understand C4K, although I don't recall saying that you were.

HankD

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Am I missing something?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by corinne:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Nope. As much as you would like to blame society or his mommy and daddy for him being a murderer, he is the one who put his hands around the girl's neck and murdered her, not his parents. Some kids are just evil and it has nothing to do with their parents. I know it is not common, but there are good parents out there who have evil kids. Unless you can prove that his parents sent him over there to kill that girl, they should not carry any guilt whatsoever. BTW, I would shoot the rotwieler, and not the owners.

Joseph Botwinick

If the child's sin is reason enough for you to put him to death, why would the sin of rape (or incest) resulting in a pregnancy not be erased (by a legal first trimester abortion)?

Corinne </font>[/QUOTE]The unborn baby did not commit rape or incest. The man (or boy) who commmited the rape / incest is the one who committed the crime and should be executed, IMO. That was a very weak argument. I would have expected a lot more from you.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Bartimaeus]

C4k,
I guess we will find out the way the Lord feels about it when we sit together on the other side of the river. Until then as the Lord helps me remember, I will pray for you in Eire. Stay on the firin'line.
Thanks ------Bart

 

[HankD]

Am I missing something?

Sorry C4K, I guess I am the one with the disconnect.

I misread your post. More senior moments...

A case could be made from the following passage connecting the Law of the State of Georgia and the justice of God:

Romans 13
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

HankD

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Thank you Hank for the review of Romans 13. As you read my postsplease note that I have never questioned the right of the state to punish criminals, even acknowledging the need for the death penalty. I have no problem with punishing criminals. This does not mean that every law is "good." God ordained government oince ruled that slavery was legal.

My problem comes with this being a child, and comments made earlier that the same rules should apply even if the murderer was 8 years old.

 

[HankD]

I have no problem with punishing criminals. This does not mean that every law is "good." God ordained government oince ruled that slavery was legal.

Yes, God allowed slavery in Israel (7 year maximum), so was God pepetrating evil?

My problem comes with this being a child, and comments made earlier that the same rules should apply even if the murderer was 8 years old.

Yes, it rubs against the grain of our sensibilities.

However I'm sure that there were 8 year olds who perished in the flood and when fire came down from heaven upon S/G.

My point: That God is holy as well as God is love.

Whether or not that severity should be reflected and to what extent in our "ordained" governments is what is being debated.

I used the model of Israel (a true theocracy) as a biblical example and was mocked (not that I haven't mocked others here at the BB).

My own feeling is that no matter what the age when an individual commits wilful murder, at very least society has the right to be protected from that individual.

Death is a sure solution but so also is imprisonment for the rest of the natural life of that individual.

I have seen 8 years old baptized indicating that the church has accepted the fact that these individuals are capable of fully understanding what it means to be a sinner and the consequences of their sin.

Do we have one rule for the church and another for the secular world?

The Scripture sanctions the death penalty and even the death penalty for children as I tried to show.

But to be honest: If I were on a jury which found an 8 year old guilty of wilful murder and then had to decide for the death penalty, I don't think I could do it.

HankD