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Deception and OSAS
- Thread starter Heavenly Pilgrim
- Start date
That inheritance towards the tree of life is for those coming out of the 1000 year reign of Christ that remained loyal to Him.
When God does something, that is not conditional. That is His glory.
The inheritance of the bridegroom and bride can never be had again after the rapture... not for those coming out of the great tribulation and not for those at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ. The inheritance in being resurrected for those coming out of the great tribulation that were martyred for their faith in Christ cannot be the same for those coming out from the 1000 year reign of Christ.
1 Corinthians 15: 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
So those coming out of the 1000 year reign of Christ will need to partake of the tree of life because of verse 50 above. The inheritance described thereafter verse 50 is borne of faith.
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Notice it says blessed are they. Who are the "they"? They are described as those "that do his commandments". Who does His commandments? Do the wicked? No, they follow the course of this world, the prince of the power of the air, fullfilling their own lusts. Who are those that do His commandments? The saints, the ones who have the inner man that delights in the law of God, the ones who love the Lord and thus keep His commandments, who desire to serve the Lord their God in sincerity. That's who is being described here. There are times in the bible that a requirement is made and other times where a description is made. In this case it is the latter.
If this is true, have you sold all that you have and given it to the poor?
Be honest now. If not, you are not saved.
Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
ray Marshall
New Member
I agree with you all the way. I will say, "Once lost, always lost."
Hmmm, you might want to give some serious thought to that.
Matthew 7:13-27 is based on false prophets coming in to the churches.
The I never knew you part was in reference to the work of iniquity.. of broadening the way in approaching God the Father other than through the Son.. such as for example: making the Holy Spirit as a Go To Person of the Trinity or another "Mediator". The specificity of the Son as the Mediator ( 1 Timothy 2:5) and the ONLY way to God the Father ( John 14:6) is never to be blurred with the Person of the Holy Spirit and His role as the Comforter. That is a work of iniquity by climbing up another way. John 10:1
Luke 13:24-30 has the rebuke of I never knew you conveyed in verse 27 as:
27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
It was where they came from as in how they came to God.
When reading in conjunction with Matthew 7:13-27, we can see that the "I never knew ye" part was in referencing that one can only know Him by coming straight to Him as the chaste bride to the Bridegroom. That also excludes Mary and the other departed saints as a means to relate to God. The only way we will know the Holy Spirit is that He is in us as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ... as in through Jesus again.
Believers are called to keep narrowing the way back to the straight gate to cease being that worker of iniquity. Luke 13:24 with Matthew 7:13-15 as false prophets will offer other invitations and other doors to go to in relating to God the Father other than through the Son, thus broadening the way.
Etrernal security is not being threatened, but the emphasis is on maintaining that relationship with Christ so as to be found abiding in Him when He appears so they may obtain their first inheritance as a vessel unto honour in God's House by His grace and help through Jesus Christ which is to His glory.
If I am depending on my grasp of His hand to keep myself secure.......who can boast they have the stronger grip?? I need a Savior not a Life Raft to cling to for dear eternal life!
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Sorry if my words implied that the grasping is on you, but by His grace, we are to be recognizing our first love in that He has grasped us. In any relationship engaged to be married, there is a call for chastity, hence holding fast to what we had received... the faith in Jesus Christ.
No one can maintain that personal relationship with Jesus, the Bridegroom, through Mary, the departed saints, and not even the Holy Spirit for the Son is the Bridegroom as the Holy Spirit in us is still pointing us to the Son in having that relationship with God the Father. ( John 14:6 & 1 Timothy 2:5) In other words, we relate to God by relating to the Son, Jesus Christ the Lord.
It is by not climbing up another way in relating to God the Father other than through the Son and those that do err, they can still re-engage in that relationship by striving to enter through the straight gate Whom is Jesus Christ thus avoiding all other offers ( definition of anti-christ is 'instead of Christ') then we can see that it is not eternal life that is the issue, but living that reconciled relationship with God by faith in Jesus Christ as the chaste bride of Christ with His help and grace.
Of course, once He appears and those that are ready taken, the doors will be shut as that first inheritance can never be had again, but Jesus will finish His work in those left behind for they are still His as they have been bought with a price and sealed as His. These other sheep that followed a stranger's voice will hear His voice at last and be one fold and one shepherd. That is what they get for not heeding His words and doing them in regards to coming to the Son for life... not just eternal life but the abundant life in living as His. The consequences will be the fall of that house in the loss of that first inheritance. :tonofbricks: They will still be of God's House, but as vessels unto dishonour. God will have to wipe the tears from their eyes for them to get past their loss, but even they shall be witnesses of the power of God in salvation in God's House.
So this is the present call while those doors are still open:
2 Corinthians 11: 1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Faith in Jesus Christ is enough for living this life as well as for the hope of eternal life.
Colossians 1: 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
We are to run the race, but looking unto the author and finisher of our faith where our confidence dwells on. In that, we are to hold fast by faith that Jesus keeps us in His grasp as the Good Shepherd as well as the Saviour to be vessels unto honour, the obtaining of salvation which is in Christ Jesus WITH eternal glory.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I hope every reader out there is reading those quotes from Jedi Knight and DHK as not coming from me.. but BobRyan. Do look closely. I know my name is spotlighted to be the one giving the quote, but those are not my words being quoted in post 211 & 212.
Thank you all for your time and attention.
Thank you all for your time and attention.
Bob,
Is salvation the power of God which is to His glory? Then losing someone that was bought with a price will not lead to that glory.
As Jesus taught, so will He do.
Jesus taught excommunication: so will He judge the House of God as that will be the seperation of the vessels of honour from the vessels of dishonour. 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 & Hebrews 12:1-29 both shows how God reproves every.. not some.. every child He receives.
Jesus taught His disciples to consider the cost in following Him; but now apply that as God considered the costs in saving us. As Jesus taught, so will He do lest by His own words, He brings shame for failing to finish.
Luke 14: 27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
I am not preaching that it doesn't matter what we do for it will matter: the first inheritance: the consequences for indulging in something temporary in light of eternity as many that fall away from the faith shall share the same judgment as vessels unto dishonour in God's House.
Why?
John 6:38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Isaiah 55: 11So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
When a believer has been bought with a price and sealed as His, that is the power of God in salvation through Jesus Christ. That is His glory. Whethor or not a believer seek to run the race to obtain the eternal glory with their salvation which is in Christ Jesus...as a vessel unto honour or as a vessel unto dishonour, doesn't change the fact that the Lord knows those that are His as He calls them by name.
But for the elect's sake... those vessels unto honour, may we see why Jesus said... many are called, but few are chosen.
This is why every believer should be calling on Jesus and trusting Him to be their Good Shepherd as well as their Saviour so they will be ready as a chaste bride for the Briidegroom when He appears. Amen.
And don't look at my typos....I was on the run.....:wavey:
"Though our heavenly Father loves ALL and "is not willing for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance" 2Peter 3 -- yet He will endure the fact that many of His lost children will end up in that lake of fire."
This is such a sad understanding of scripture. To believe that God would allow any of His children to end up in hell for eternity is really defaming of the character of God.
This is such a sad understanding of scripture. To believe that God would allow any of His children to end up in hell for eternity is really defaming of the character of God.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Bob said:
Jedi Knight said:
This is straying from the topic of OSAS - but Christ's statement in Matt 10:28 showing the "destruction of BOTH body AND soul" in fiery hell is compelling. And while we all agree that the Rev 20 lake of fire and brimstone involves the torture of fire and brimstone - Christ's point is that it ends with the complete destruction of the wicked - not only their physical body - but also their soul. It is an everlasting death (called the 2nd death in Rev 20) from which none of the wicked will be released or raised to life.
Jude 7 speaks of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of real cities undergoing the punishment of eternal - or everlasting - fire.
But regardless of how long they are tortured in that fire - the case for OSAS is ended when we discover that the fully forgiven servant of the King in Matt 18 experiences "forgiveness revoked" and so must pay his own debt of sin in that "second death" lake of fire. For as Rom 6:23 says "the wages of sin is death" and in this case it is speaking of the 2nd death -- the one we see in Rev 20.
in Christ,
Bob
So the whole deal about everlasting fire, the smoke of their torment ascending up forever and ever, the worm dieth not, etc is all wrong because Christ talks about destroying both body and soul in hell? Have you ever considered that the destruction talked about is the casting of both body and soul into hell for all eternity? Isaiah 26 says that some will not rise. But we are told that all will rise. What does this mean then? It means that some will not rise to life everlasting, but rather to eternal death, where they shall be punished in hell forever.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Lament over Jerusalem
Matt 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate
Luke 7:[/b]
28 “I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
29 When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and the £lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
31 “To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like?
32 “They are like children who sit in the market place and call to one another, and they say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.’
33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’
‘The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’
2Cor 5:18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Luke 19:[/b]
41When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it,
42saying, “If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes.
43“For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.”
The Biblical view is that this is "proclaiming" the character and nature of God -- not defaming it.
Let the objective unbiased reader consider the inconvenient details.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Let's contrast that with the Gospel that Paul preached.
Romans 2
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the [b]righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: [/b]
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be [b]tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil[/b], of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
The error in OSAS demands that God gives BOTH groups "immortality and eternal life" regardless of whether the person chooses to "ersevere in doing good" - just as you have said. How directly contrary that is to scripture in this case can be seen from the text above.
in Christ,
Bob
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