1. The church of Philadelphia is not described as those who go into apostasy or as those who went astray.
2. While there is a lot of discussion in scripture about calling the wicked to repent and even God using discipline to get them to repent - there is no such thing as the "saved in rebellion" argument that you are trying to make.
In Romans 2 - Paul is very clear that there is no such thing as "saved in rebellion".
In 1John 2 John argues that the one still claiming to know Christ - yet walking in disobedience is a liar.
In 1Cor 6 Paul argues that those who walk in the way of sin do NOT inherit eternal life -
in Christ,
Bob
Thank you for showing how my post was not clear to you. Reposting:
Revelation 2: 19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
To the church at Philadelphia...
Revelation 3: 10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
So here we have God addressing those that have gone astray as His still. The repercussions of being left behind is quite severe. Just as Jesus taught excommunication, so will those vessels unto dishonour be sent through this "excommunication" for the purpose of what Paul said it was for:
The emboldened statement was referring to Revelation 2nd chapter reference as comparing that church as one that have gone astray as opposing the church at Philadelphia as one found abiding in Him.
I did not mean to imply or infer that the church at Philadelphia went astray as clearly, it is read that they have not.
The "saved in rebellion" label is not applicable to what I am sharing by His grace.
Yes, those that rebel will not inherit the Kingdom of God but no, the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living ( thus having lost that first inheritance like Esau) will not cease to be son for he has been bought with a price and sealed as His. 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 and Hebrews 12th chapter all consist on how God reproves the disobedient. As Jesus taught excommunication, so will He do when judgment falls on the House of God first. Paul describes this excommunication in this way that it is hard not to see the great tribulation being applied by Jesus when He judges on those found not abiding in Him to be left behind at the rapture event.
1 Corinthians 5: 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
How can 1 Corinthaisn 3:10-23 & Hebrews 12th chpater be NOT seen verse 5?
If you think Jesus would not bother to go after the wayward sheep that departed from the faith and/or have gone carnal...
Matthew 18: 10Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Verse 17 sounds harsh but that is the guideline for the churches: as well as a confirmation on those not being His sheep for following a stranger's voice BUT reread verse 14 and know that the will of the Father will win out as He that begins a good work in us, will finish it lest His own words be used at Him.
Luke 14:28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
These words spoken to His disciples in counting the cost in following Him are His Words as God did know the cost in saving us. He will finish it; even on those led astray for in that He will keep His promises in losing nothing.
John 6:
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 10: 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers..... 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Verse 16 is indicative towards verse 5 in that there will be sheep that did not hear nor follow His voice but the voice of strangers, but they will be part of the one fold.
Some would cry foul, but the elder son in the field had something that the prodigal son did not: his inheritance as the father called him in stating that all that he has was belonging to the elder son, but now that the prodigal son that was lost, is now home, there was to be rejoicing for he is still son albeit, he does not have what the elder has for he had given up that inheritance for wild living.
At no time is this to be seen as encouraging believers to live in sin for the loss of that inheritance is assured to be felt by all those left behind... weeping and gnashing of teeth. Many may mock and not take their reconciled relationship with the Lord as valued when they sow to the flesh and live in sin, but like Esau giving up his first inheritance for a meal.. something temporary for that moment in a day in light of eternity, they will wish they had turned to Jesus Christ to deliver them from their desires to sin.
Please drop the "saved through rebellion" label. It makes it look like one is saved through rebellion... and that is not so and hardly applicable. If anyone believed that, they are defrauding themselves of their inheritance in the Kingdom of God.
Anyway.. sorry for the lack of clarity.
