Any reliable translation disagrees with van on much of his theology!
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Definition Part II
- Thread starter Salty
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yes, but that saving faith is a free gift of God towards us!
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Can I choose to flap my arms and fly, NO but that is not what I am referring to. Read again what I wrote. Calvinists should start to actually read what is written and think before they jump.
Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, culpability, sin, and other judgements which apply only to actions that are freely chosen.
Only actions that are freely willed are seen as deserving credit or blame.
Do you not agree with what Augustine wrote? If not why not?
For example, in "On Grace and Free Will," (see especially chapters II-IV)
Augustine states: "He [God] has revealed to us, through His Holy Scriptures, that there is in man a free choice of will," and that "God's precepts themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards." (On Grace and Free Will, chap. II) Augustine
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
No they are exercising willpower to trust in the Sovereign God that will make them spiritually alive because they have faith in His son
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Then you have people saved before they believe.
they must first be regenerated by God before can believe!
The sin natural will always be inclined to reject Jesus to save them!
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The washing of regeneration G3824 (paliggenesía) refers to the spiritual rebirth of the individual soul. The Complete Word Study Dictionary
So by what you are saying you agree with
Loraine Boettner
"A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved."
and disagree with the bible
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
But that is not what the bible says
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Salvation results from two things: grace and faith. So what is the role that each plays? The answer is found in the prepositions “by” and “through.”
Who saves us? God saves us. How, by his grace. So what, then, is the role of faith? The key preposition for faith G4102 is “through," G1223 which refers to the means or instrumentality by which we are saved {because of, for this reason}.
We are saved by God’s grace (grace is the ground and agency of our salvation) through faith, which is the reason we receive the gift of salvation.
We see this in a number of verses
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Salvation is by grace alone.
Justification is by faith alone.
Therefore, grace comes before faith.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Do you actually read the verse or do you just ignore everything that you do not like.
Through faith. This is not the emphatic phrase, but adds the subjective means, as so often in Paul’s writings. ‘Salvation by grace is not arbitrarily attached to faith by the mere sovereign dictate of the Most High, for man’s willing acceptance of salvation is essential to his possession of it’ (Eadie). Comp. Augustine: ‘He who created thee without thee, will not save thee without thee.’ Philip Schaff's Popular Commentary on the NT
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
Yep
If he did not do all the work, all te faith in the world would nit help us
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Phillip Schaff believed the positive components of Protestantism and Catholicism would one day be blended into Catholic evangelicalism.
Your quote seems to express the Catholic belief that mankind works with God for salvation.
peace to you
I read the verse and the entire passage/letter surrounding it. I read the Bible as a whole. In it, I find that God is always choosing His people and empowering them to do works of faith, which he has ordained for them to do.
I see that God is the cause agent and that we are the effected agent. This is evident in all of scripture, yet you are desperately trying to place your own self as the cause agent. Why is that, Silverhair?
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
~ 1 Peter 1:3-5
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Then you better read your bible again. God expects us to trust / have faith. He does not believe for us or give us faith.
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
No just the requirement of God that the person that is going to be saved must first have faith. God saves those that believe not so they will believe.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
If you want to believe that God saves those that do not believe so that He can pour faith into them after they are saved then so be it. But even your quote says it is through faith for a salvation. Do you not understand that clear sentence? Through faith not unto faith as you keep saying.
Your blind spot is just amazing. But it is your blind spot.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I just read a little about him from three sources in the internet. I took what I said from that quick search. They were in agreement. He was a big proponent of the ecumenical movement in the 19th century and looked for common beliefs and areas of reconciliation.
If you are going to quote him, you should know more about him.
peace to you
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