Definition Part II

[Eternally Grateful]

Regnerated unto salvation! That happens before saved!

You still are missing the point

You are not regenerated while still under the penalty of sin. You are regenerated based on the fact your sin debt is “paid in full” and you are declaired to be justified by the court of Law. The court of law in this case happens to be the father.

We are justified. Because of our justification, we are made alive in christ. Because of that, we have been saved.

For it is by Grace we have been saved THROUGH FAITH.

You want to remove faith from the equation. It can not be removed, apart from faith. There is no salvation. No new birth. No new anything, we remain dead in our sin. In adam.

 

[Reformed1689]

Your "absolute free will" is not free will, it is just your pseudo free will. It is just your calvinist view that causes you problems. But your view on free will goes a long way in explaining why you do not have a good understanding of scripture.

If someone had your "absolute free will" they would be able to save themselves, but since no one can do that then, no "absolute free will". It is just a boogeyman that you trot out when you have no ground to stand on.

Unimpeded - Not obstructed or hindered.
God given free will. You seem to have a real problem with God being God.

Guess you did not like the Augustine quote then?

You don't believe sin impedes the will or influences the will? Because that is what you seem to be arguing. Do you think we are stronger than sin or is sin stronger than us?

 

[canadyjd]

We have "free will". Why do you struggle with this? Do you not know what the words mean?

No struggle at all. Scripture tells us we have human will enslaved to sin (Romans 1-7). If the will is enslaved, it isn’t free. Do you not know what the word “enslaved” means?

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

You don't believe sin impedes the will or influences the will? Because that is what you seem to be arguing. Do you think we are stronger than sin or is sin stronger than us?

That is not what I am arguing at all. I am just saying as the bible does that man has the God given ability to hear and believe the gospel. Why do you struggle with what the text says? You want to hold to the idea that God has to drop faith into you and that it happens after you are saved.
That is illogical but it is what you argue for.

 

[Van]

False.
I responded directly to your statement.

You are using a false excuse to not answer the question.

Will you answer the question that is tied directly to your previous statement?

Are people who are dead in their trespasses and sins made alive without being saved by grace?

Yes, your claim is false. No I will not allow you to hide the flaws of Calvinism by changing the subject.

What does the Greek word translated by the KJV as "quickening" mean? The Greek word (zōopoieō) appears about 12 times in the NT. The meaning is to be "made alive" and has nothing whatsoever to do with enabling a person to come to faith in Christ. Thus this thread presents Calvinism's attempt to redefine a word according to its false doctrine.

If you study all eleven verses where our word appears the meaning is the same, God gives life to whom He wishes. Enabling someone to come to faith is never found in any verse.

 

[Silverhair]

No struggle at all. Scripture tells us we have human will enslaved to sin (Romans 1-7). If the will is enslaved, it isn’t free. Do you not know what the word “enslaved” means?

peace to you

Do you realize that even those enslaved to sin can still think and hear and believe.
If it were impossible for the enslaved to do anything then why this:
Mar_16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Sure sounds like those enslaved can hear and exercise their free will to accept or reject the gospel.

 

[Van]

Do you think we are stronger than sin or is sin stronger than us?
Do you not know what the word “enslaved” means?
Are people who are dead in their trespasses and sins made alive without being saved by grace?

Three different questions with one thing in common: They avoid defining the meaning of "Quickening."

Quickening does not mean the enablement of the lost to come to faith in Christ. This false claim, also characterized as "Regeneration before Faith" is just another unbiblical premise of Calvinism.

What does the Greek word translated by the KJV as "quickening" mean? The Greek word (zōopoieō) appears about 12 times in the NT. The meaning is to be "made alive" and has nothing whatsoever to do with enabling a person to come to faith in Christ. Thus this thread presents Calvinism's attempt to redefine a word according to its false doctrine.

If you study all eleven verses where our word appears the meaning is the same, God gives life to whom He wishes. Enabling someone to come to faith is never found in any verse.

Since people are chosen for salvation through or by means of faith in the truth, faith comes before "quickening" and "regeneration" and being placed spiritually into Christ, because faith comes before even being chosen individually by God for salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

False.
I responded directly to your statement.

You are using a false excuse to not answer the question.

Will you answer the question that is tied directly to your previous statement?

Are people who are dead in their trespasses and sins made alive without being saved by grace?

The person is saved/made alive by grace because they believe, not so they will believe.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith;

That is just what the bible tells us
1Co_15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

 

[Silverhair]

Sure, I'll point you to it though I know it won't stick:

8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5



Sure, I'll point you to it though I know it won't stick:

8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3



Yea, God's grace IS unnatural to carnal reasoning.

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isa 55

God saves those that trust in His son, you hear the gospel, believe the gospel, God saves.

 

[Silverhair]

Regnerated unto salvation! That happens before saved!

Regeneration = saved, it is not a step toward being saved.

The washing of regeneration G3824 (paliggenesía) refers to the spiritual rebirth of the individual soul. The Complete Word Study Dictionary

 

[kyredneck]

Won’t stick?

Does not even compute.

That's because you're still using carnal reasoning.

2. We can not be made alive, quickened, or born again UNTIL the penalty is removed.

Wow. So now you/re going to dictate how God must do things? How about some scripture instead of your carnal reasoning?

3. The legal term for having ones dead paid or forgiven, or being declaired innocent of all wrong doing is called justification.
4. By legal Definition. A man can not be freed from his debt (death) until justification occures, in this case, through redemption.
5. Hence in conclusion. Justification MUST precede regeneration. No matter how you try to spin it. That is the facts. God does not change the t rules to suit people. He must follow the rules. He is all loving, He is all grace, but he is also all justice. He is the perfect judge. To go against his justice would be to go against himself.

How about some scripture instead of your carnal reasoning?

If, as you say, Being made alive must precede justification because it was purchased 2000 years ago in the cross. Then all the elect would be born alive, not dead. They would be born in CHrist, Not in adam. In fact. They woudl never have to come to faith. Why come to faith to be justified if your already jjustified? That makes no sense at all.

I didn't say any of the above. This is just more of your carnal rambling void of any scripture.

 

[kyredneck]

You did not answer my question.

This question?:

I still would love to have anyone tell me how God can "quicken" or make alive, a person who is dead because of sin, before they are justified (the forgiveness of sin)

I answered your question with scripture, not carnal reasoning as you do:

 

[AustinC]

The person is saved/made alive by grace because they believe, not so they will believe.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith;

That is just what the bible tells us
1Co_15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

You left out Ephesians 2:9

not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

God refutes your man-centered teaching.

 

[AustinC]

Yes, your claim is false. No I will not allow you to hide the flaws of Calvinism by changing the subject.

What does the Greek word translated by the KJV as "quickening" mean? The Greek word (zōopoieō) appears about 12 times in the NT. The meaning is to be "made alive" and has nothing whatsoever to do with enabling a person to come to faith in Christ. Thus this thread presents Calvinism's attempt to redefine a word according to its false doctrine.

If you study all eleven verses where our word appears the meaning is the same, God gives life to whom He wishes. Enabling someone to come to faith is never found in any verse.

Answer the question please:
Are people who are dead in their trespasses and sins made alive without being saved by grace?

 

[Silverhair]

You left out Ephesians 2:9

not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

God refutes your man-centered teaching.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith;
I agree it is not by works, good thing faith is not a work. Now if you would just believe what the bible says instead of denying it you might actually understand salvation.

Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Rom 3:27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

You really need to get over this foolish idea that faith is a work or has merit. Start to trust the bible and not your errant theology. It is just leading you astray.

 

[Van]

Answer the question please:
Are people who are dead in their trespasses and sins made alive without being saved by grace?

Sure. Calvinism is false doctrine, quickening does not mean enabled to come to faith.

 

[AustinC]

Sure. Calvinism is false doctrine, quickening does not mean enabled to come to faith.

So, you declare that people who are dead in their trespasses and sins are made alive without being saved by grace.

Of course that is contrary to Ephesians 2:4-5, but thank you for being honest.

 

[Reformed1689]

That is not what I am arguing at all. I am just saying as the bible does that man has the God given ability to hear and believe the gospel. Why do you struggle with what the text says? You want to hold to the idea that God has to drop faith into you and that it happens after you are saved.
That is illogical but it is what you argue for.

Where does it say that each individual has the ability to hear and believe? Because I can show you a bunch of verses that state the exact opposite.

 

[Silverhair]

So, you declare that people who are dead in their trespasses and sins are made alive without being saved by grace.

Of course that is contrary to Ephesians 2:4-5, but thank you for being honest.

Read just a few verses down, by grace we are saved through faith. And a few verses earlier we see hear the gospel, believe the gospel, are saved.

So it would seem that those that are dead in trespasses and sins are made alive and saved by grace because they believe.

 

[Silverhair]

Where does it say that each individual has the ability to hear and believe? Because I can show you a bunch of verses that state the exact opposite.

Where does it say they do not?