Definition Part II

[Van]

Are people who are dead in their trespasses and sins made alive without being saved by grace?

Ah yet another Calvinist asks yet another off the shelf question to change the subject.

What does the Greek word translated by the KJV as "quickening" mean? The Greek word (zōopoieō) appears about 12 times in the NT. The meaning is to be "made alive" and has nothing whatsoever to do with enabling a person to come to faith in Christ. Thus this thread presents Calvinism's attempt to redefine a word according to its false doctrine.

If you study all eleven verses where our word appears the meaning is the same, God gives life to whom He wishes. Enabling someone to come to faith is never found in any verse.

 

[AustinC]

Ah yet another Calvinist asks yet another off the shelf question to change the subject.

What does the Greek word translated by the KJV as "quickening" mean? The Greek word (zōopoieō) appears about 12 times in the NT. The meaning is to be "made alive" and has nothing whatsoever to do with enabling a person to come to faith in Christ. Thus this thread presents Calvinism's attempt to redefine a word according to its false doctrine.

If you study all eleven verses where our word appears the meaning is the same, God gives life to whom He wishes. Enabling someone to come to faith is never found in any verse.

False.
I responded directly to your statement.

You are using a false excuse to not answer the question.

Will you answer the question that is tied directly to your previous statement?

Are people who are dead in their trespasses and sins made alive without being saved by grace?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I still would love to have anyone tell me how God can "quicken" or make alive, a person who is dead because of sin, before they are justified (the forgiveness of sin)

That makes no sense at all

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are people who are dead in their trespasses and sins made alive without being saved by grace?

They are not made alive until they are justified.

Until they are justified, they are dead in their sin.

Justification (salvation) is by grace through faith.

God will not force his salvation on you.

And you cant EARN your salvation by falling on your knees with a bankrupt spirit at the end of your rope begging God to have mercy on you

 

[kyredneck]

I still would love to have anyone tell me how God can "quicken" or make alive, a person who is dead because of sin, before they are justified (the forgiveness of sin)

Sure, I'll point you to it though I know it won't stick:

8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5

tell me how God can "quicken" or make alive

Sure, I'll point you to it though I know it won't stick:

8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3

That makes no sense at all

Yea, God's grace IS unnatural to carnal reasoning.

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isa 55

 

[Silverhair]

False.
I responded directly to your statement.

You are using a false excuse to not answer the question.

Will you answer the question that is tied directly to your previous statement?

Are people who are dead in their trespasses and sins made alive without being saved by grace?

And they are saved by God because they have faith, not so they will have faith. They hear the gospel they believe the gospel they call out to God and He saves them.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Hebrews 11:6, ". . . But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. . . ."

Romans 10:17-18, ". . . So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . . ."

John 17"17, ". . . Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. . . ."

Posting vss and/or snippets of vss does not bolster your position.

 

[JesusFan]

They are not made alive until they are justified.

Until they are justified, they are dead in their sin.

Justification (salvation) is by grace through faith.

God will not force his salvation on you.

And you cant EARN your salvation by falling on your knees with a bankrupt spirit at the end of your rope begging God to have mercy on you

Regnerated unto salvation! That happens before saved!

 

[JesusFan]

Either man has the God given ability to make real choices or man can not make any real choices at all. {speaking of salvation here}
If man can make real choices then if he is condemned he is responsible, if man can not make those real choices then if he is condemned God is responsible.

That is the glaring problem that the calvinist ignores.

Lost sinners can and do maker "real choices", as God is not the One causing them to reject Jesus to save them!

 

[Silverhair]

Lost sinners can and do maker "real choices", as God is not the One causing them to reject Jesus to save them!

Since we are all lost sinners we are able to make "real choices" as you say. Some will freely choose to trust the gospel message unto salvation and some will freely reject the gospel message unto condemnation.

 

[Aaron]

..about the most pertinent signature/quote I've ever seen on the BB, by Aaron himself.

All the whining of the non-Cals confirm the truth of Romans 9, and they're too self-unaware to see it.

You're too kind.

 

[Aaron]

Since we are all lost sinners we are able to make "real choices" as you say. Some will freely choose to trust the gospel message unto salvation and some will freely reject the gospel message unto condemnation.

This is saying that some are better than others. It also is saying, contrary to Christ's maxim, that an evil tree can bring forth good fruit.

 

[Silverhair]

This is saying that some are better than others. It also is saying, contrary to Christ's maxim, that an evil tree can bring forth good fruit.

No not saying some are better than others just that some accept the free gift and some reject it, That's just free will in action.

A Tree and Its Fruit
Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I agree we should be aware of false prophets, but what you said has nothing to do with a person being able to respond to the gospel message, but these do
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead,
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

 

[kyredneck]

All the whining of the non-Cals confirm the truth of Romans 9, and they're too self-unaware to see it.

Prime example by @Silverhair :

No not saying some are better than others just that some accept the free gift and some reject it, That's just free will in action.

Where's man's 'free will' in this?:

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy. Ro 9

Or this?:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

 

[Silverhair]

Prime example by @Silverhair :



Where's man's 'free will' in this?:

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy. Ro 9

Or this?:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

Where have I said that man saves himself. God saves those that freely trust in His son. That is that main point that all the calvinists on here ignore. The verses you posted just show that God is sovereign. Calvinists limit how God can be sovereign, I and the bible do not.

Here is free will
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead,
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

 

[kyredneck]

The verses you posted just show that God is sovereign.

No. You said:

That's just free will in action.

I refuted your notion of man's free will with scripture:

Where's man's 'free will' in this?:

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy. Ro 9

Or this?:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

...and you ducked the questions.

[add]

I'm done here. I know better than to go in circles with you CDS types....I have a chicken feeder to build.

 

[Silverhair]

No. You said:



I refuted your notion of man's free will with scripture:

Where's man's 'free will' in this?:

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy. Ro 9

Or this?:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

...and you ducked the questions.

These verse do not address free will, they do address the sovereignty of God. But you did not deal with the verses that I gave you which do deal free will. You are just avoiding the problem that your theology causes.

 

[AustinC]

These verse do not address free will, they do address the sovereignty of God. But you did not deal with the verses that I gave you which do deal free will. You are just avoiding the problem that your theology causes.

There is no verse in the Bible that deals with free will, which is precisely why your view is philosophy, not scripture.

 

[JesusFan]

Since we are all lost sinners we are able to make "real choices" as you say. Some will freely choose to trust the gospel message unto salvation and some will freely reject the gospel message unto condemnation.

except you assume that we still have full free will, but our will limited by sin nature!

 

[Silverhair]

There is no verse in the Bible that deals with free will, which is precisely why your view is philosophy, not scripture.

You just ignore all the verses that require it so that you can say there are no verses.

Act_8:37 [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]
Mat_21:32 "For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.
Mar_11:31 They began reasoning among themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' He will say, 'Then why did you not believe him?'
Mar_16:11 When they heard that He was alive and had been seen by her, they refused to believe it.
Luk_8:50 But when Jesus heard this, He answered him, "Do not be afraid any longer; only believe, and she will be made well."

How many verses do you need before you will believe that free will is in the bible. Now you have to choose, Des God make those people that refuse to believe, not believe or did they do it by their free will? And if God did it then you have to answer why?
Free will is clearly taught in the bible you just have to take of the blinders so you can see it.