Demanding the Tithe

[Salty]

We have an interesting discussion going on about the tithe.

So, should the pastor demand that certain leaders in the church ie SS teachers, deacons, ect tithe of their wages?

If so, should the pastor review the financial records to see who is giving. Should he require you produce a pay voucher to determine if you are giving 10%?

Thoughts?

 

[HAMel]

I don't think the Pastor should demand such. I suppose some do. Christians should tithe at every opportunity. To me, to tithe is to worship. Where I would draw the line is a Pastor mandating a certain percent of expected tithe.

 

[annsni]

We have no such demands but I understand that the whole staff voluntarily does tithe.

 

[Ruiz]

I have never reviewed the individual offering records of any church I have attended or Pastored. To me, it is none of my business. It is the business God and the individual.

 

[matt wade]

I do all my giving in cash. It's no one else's business what I give.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Since it was me who made the comment about what we do, maybe I should say something.

We believe the Bible teaches that believers today should tithe. The tithe existed before the law but was codified in the law. Jesus stated that people should have been just and merciful and tithe. If the tithe is outdated, so should showing mercy. But because we believe that this is what God's people ought to do, we also believe that those who are called to be leaders such as SS teachers, small group leaders, worship leaders, deacons and pastors should lead the way in being obedient.

As I said in the other thread, I cannot look at what people give. I have no access to that information. I can't and I don't want to know. But when we are considering someone for a leadership poisition, someone, usually the head of the personnel committee but sometimes me, will ask the treasurer if the person tithes. She will tell the leader if it looks like someone tithes or does not. Appearances are sometimes deceptive and sometimes a person gives cash and does not want the tax record. So the next step if there is still a question, is to ask the person in an interview if they tithe. If their answer is yes, we accept their word for it.

This is not the only area we talk to leaders about. But if we are going to put people in front of the church as leaders, we feel this is one of those areas in which they ought to be obedient to God's Word.

I bet that every church has areas that they ask their leaders to be examples in. This is one of ours.

 

[abcgrad94]

I don't believe the pastor has any business knowing who tithes or not, or how much. That should be between them and God. There's just too much temptation to treat people differently based on one's knowledge of that.

We are not under the law, but under grace, so the 10% tithe really isn't a COMMAND for us now. I do believe it is a good percentage to use, and I do believe in giving offerings, but it seems we get too hung up on the tithing of money. We have people in my church who will gladly tithe financially, but will not participate or even attend half the time. Trust me, everyone is made quite aware that they tithe! It's like since they put in their check, they don't have to actually be part of the church. Then there are others who cannot afford to give much money, but they more than make up for that by their faithful service in other areas.

I think using money as a benchmark to judge one's faithfulness is not really a great idea.

 

[preachinjesus]

We ask our leadership team, staff, and lead lay people to tithe in our leadership covenant. We renew the covenant every year.

That said no one on staff (save one person) knows, or can know, how much any one person gives to our church. We ask people to tithe as part of their commitment (we list other things too) to supporting their local church.

We've not had any issues with our request. Maybe the difference is because we ask and don't demand.

 

[annsni]

It's only our administrative pastor and his two staff who have any idea what people give. The rest of the pastors don't want to know. I DO think it wrong for most anyone to know who tithes and who doesn't and especially for the senior pastor. I think it's important for there to be a little "right hand not knowing what the left is doing" sort of thing.

 

[Salty]

Lets add one more "what if"

Suppose you went to join a new church, what if the pastor told you he checks the financial report to see how much leaders gave. What would you do?

 

[webdog]

Lets add one more "what if"

Suppose you went to join a new church, what if the pastor told you he checks the financial report to see how much leaders gave. What would you do?

I wouldn't go back. Seriously.

 

[webdog]

I don't believe the pastor has any business knowing who tithes or not, or how much. That should be between them and God. There's just too much temptation to treat people differently based on one's knowledge of that.

We are not under the law, but under grace, so the 10% tithe really isn't a COMMAND for us now. I do believe it is a good percentage to use, and I do believe in giving offerings, but it seems we get too hung up on the tithing of money. We have people in my church who will gladly tithe financially, but will not participate or even attend half the time. Trust me, everyone is made quite aware that they tithe! It's like since they put in their check, they don't have to actually be part of the church. Then there are others who cannot afford to give much money, but they more than make up for that by their faithful service in other areas.

I think using money as a benchmark to judge one's faithfulness is not really a great idea.

Good post...agreed.

 

[preachinjesus]

Lets add one more "what if"

Suppose you went to join a new church, what if the pastor told you he checks the financial report to see how much leaders gave. What would you do?

Leave.

No one should ever have that much power.

 

[Tater77]

The tithe was part of the law of Moses and nailed to the cross with Christ, thus fulfilled and gone.

The tithe was a crop and livestock tithe and if you paid it in money then you paid a 5% penalty, also in Lev 27. So the 10% of your net income is a fabrication of modern greed.

So if your going to follow a law from Lev 27 then you also need to put down that bacon cheeseburger and give up pork chops and shellfish, cause you cant cherry pick the law. At least according to James and Paul you cant. Its all or nothing.

Forget the tithe, I give to the best of my ability.

 

[David Lamb]

Lets add one more "what if"

Suppose you went to join a new church, what if the pastor told you he checks the financial report to see how much leaders gave. What would you do?

It seems my church has a different kind of financial report to your hypothetical new church. Our reports do not give a breakdown of how much is given by each member, regardless of whether or not that member is a leader. Indeed, there would be no way we could give such information, except, I suppose, for members who give by cheque or by bank transfer, but even then we would not know how much more they might give in cash.

So in answer to your question, if I did go to a new church and the pastor told me that he checks the financial giving of the leaders, I would ask him how and why.

 

[DiamondLady]

In our church the only person who knows how much one gives is the treasurer/financial secretary. Even she does not know who tithes and who does not. It's no ones business who tithes and who does not, that is between them and the Lord.

If the pastor tried to ask, I'd tell him it's none of his business. If he insisted I'd be looking for another church.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Let me make clear: I don't know nor do I want to know what people give, but let me take another side at least from the Scripture:

Jesus watched specifically what people were giving, then He called his disciples and told them what she had done and what others had done.

Peter in Acts 5 knew exactly what Ananias and Sapphira had promised to give, what they actually gave and confronted them about their giving.

In 2 Corinthians 8, Paul knew what people made and how great their giving was. He also instructed Titus to make certain that the Corinthians church gave what they had promised and what they ought to give.

I don't trust myself to actually not be partisan to a big giver. So I keep from knowing. But any pastor of a small or medium sized church knows who the 'big givers' are.

Just a little Bible for thought.

 

[webdog]

Tom, if anything those passages refute the tithe and support giving from the heart. Its one thing to promise God and the church a certain gift and seeing to it this promise is fulfilled, and another to ensure people are giving a specific amount of their income (tithe) which is not commanded for non jews or the church.

 

[ashleysdad]

Here is my question regarding tithing and giving to the local church. First I definetly agree that we should be financially supportive of our local church so here is my situation and question. The church my wife and I attend is small and extremely strapped money wise. I am the youth pastor (unpaid which is no problem). Because of the financial situation at our church my wife and I essentially provide the monetary support for the youth ministry. We purchase out of pocket everything from curriculum to Bibles for the kids that need them (which considering our youth all come from families that do not attend church all of them need Bibles). We pay for the gas in the vans to pick up the kids, we pay for activities and trips. We do require that the kids going to activities pay some but the bulk of the money for the youth ministry in general comes from my wife and I. None of this is a problem for us we actually enjoy doing it. The amount of the money that we invest in this ministry usually goes above the benchmark of 10% of our income annually. The reality in our situation is that with our current financial position we cannot pay for the youth ministry as we have been and give to the general fund. The way we have viewed it in the past is that we are alleviating an expense for the church by making sure that they don't have to worry about the youth ministry. Lately I have been wondering if this is the right approach. My concern is that if my wife and I don't cover the cost of the youth ministry the church may not. At the same time I do not want to be guilty of essentially robbing God by not giving to the general fund. My wife and I want to do whats right and the fact is we cannot cover the expenses of the youth and give to the churchs general fund. How would you all advise us?

 

[webdog]

Here is my question regarding tithing and giving to the local church. First I definetly agree that we should be financially supportive of our local church so here is my situation and question. The church my wife and I attend is small and extremely strapped money wise. I am the youth pastor (unpaid which is no problem). Because of the financial situation at our church my wife and I essentially provide the monetary support for the youth ministry. We purchase out of pocket everything from curriculum to Bibles for the kids that need them (which considering our youth all come from families that do not attend church all of them need Bibles). We pay for the gas in the vans to pick up the kids, we pay for activities and trips. We do require that the kids going to activities pay some but the bulk of the money for the youth ministry in general comes from my wife and I. None of this is a problem for us we actually enjoy doing it. The amount of the money that we invest in this ministry usually goes above the benchmark of 10% of our income annually. The reality in our situation is that with our current financial position we cannot pay for the youth ministry as we have been and give to the general fund. The way we have viewed it in the past is that we are alleviating an expense for the church by making sure that they don't have to worry about the youth ministry. Lately I have been wondering if this is the right approach. My concern is that if my wife and I don't cover the cost of the youth ministry the church may not. At the same time I do not want to be guilty of essentially robbing God by not giving to the general fund. My wife and I want to do whats right and the fact is we cannot cover the expenses of the youth and give to the churchs general fund. How would you all advise us?

I think what you are doing is commendable and what the NT believer should be doing, not following an OT law which was not designed for the church. You are giving of your time, talents and treasures. There will always be "fruit inspectors" who will have something to say about your "lack" of "giving", but this is an issue between yourself and God.

I'm also in a tough situation. The church I've been a member in for the past 7 years has used the offerings in ways I'm not too fond of. I do realize I'm under the leadership of the church, and should support my church, but I believe this is also done by serving as well. I think when missions and discipleship is only a slight fraction budgeted, and the majority of what is given goes to building and salaries there is an unhealthy blend, and I'm not sure how exactly to support that financially. It's an area I'm struggling with right now.