Democrat Anti-Gun Sting Fizzles

[carpro]

Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires


A Democrat-backed study meant to expose illicit online gun sales instead seemed to show the opposite -- with hardly any sellers taking the bait when undercover investigators tried to set up dozens of illegal firearm transactions.

Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., as well as Sens. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., and Brian Schatz, D-Hawaii, had commissioned the Government Accountability Office report to look into how online private dealers might be selling guns to people not allowed to have them.



Over the course of the two-and-a-half year investigation, agents tried to buy firearms illegally on the “Surface Web” and the “Dark Web,” generally by sharing their status as “prohibited individuals” or trying to buy across state lines.

But the GAO revealed that their 72 attempts outside of the dark web were all “unsuccessful.”



Based on the findings of the study, the GAO said it is “not making recommendations in this report.”

 

[FollowTheWay]

Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires


A Democrat-backed study meant to expose illicit online gun sales instead seemed to show the opposite -- with hardly any sellers taking the bait when undercover investigators tried to set up dozens of illegal firearm transactions.

Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., as well as Sens. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., and Brian Schatz, D-Hawaii, had commissioned the Government Accountability Office report to look into how online private dealers might be selling guns to people not allowed to have them.



Over the course of the two-and-a-half year investigation, agents tried to buy firearms illegally on the “Surface Web” and the “Dark Web,” generally by sharing their status as “prohibited individuals” or trying to buy across state lines.

But the GAO revealed that their 72 attempts outside of the dark web were all “unsuccessful.”



Based on the findings of the study, the GAO said it is “not making recommendations in this report.”

So you support "illicit online gun sales?" Are you aware that Trump reversed an Obama regulation that made it illegal to sell guns to individuals receiving medicaid disability payments due to serious mental problems? Do you support selling guns to those with significant mental problems?

 

[Don]

So you support "illicit online gun sales?"

How in the world do you come to that conclusion?!?

The article identifies that democrats asked for, and got, a test of the system; and the result was that they found no illicit gun sales.

That doesn't mean that it's not happening, but neither does it imply that anyone condones illicit gun sales, whether online or in person.

It simply means that the "problem" is not as widespread or proliferant as liberals and gun-phobes would like to believe.

Are you aware that Trump reversed an Obama regulation that made it illegal to sell guns to individuals receiving medicaid disability payments due to serious mental problems? Do you support selling guns to those with significant mental problems?

What does that have to do with illicit online gun sales?

 

[FollowTheWay]

How in the world do you come to that conclusion?!?

The article identifies that democrats asked for, and got, a test of the system; and the result was that they found no illicit gun sales.

That doesn't mean that it's not happening, but neither does it imply that anyone condones illicit gun sales, whether online or in person.

It simply means that the "problem" is not as widespread or proliferant as liberals and gun-phobes would like to believe.


What does that have to do with illicit online gun sales?

My comment has to do with gun sales I consider to be inherently dangerous as are on-line gun sales. Duh.

 

[Rob_BW]

My comment has to do with gun sales I consider to be inherently dangerous as are on-line gun sales. Duh.

How many guns have you bought online?

Share your experiences, and then I'll share mine.

 

[FollowTheWay]

How many guns have you bought online?

Share your experiences, and then I'll share mine.

I've never bought a gun anywhere. Go ahead. Tell me about background checks done for online sales.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

As I understand the system, sales are done through FFL dealers. IOW:

• I find a rifle at an online sale site.
• I make arrangements with my local FFL dealer for the rifle to be shipped to his\her shop.
• My local FFL dealer fills out the background paperwork and sends it off to the powers that be.
• I clear the background check and pick up the rifle.

The days of unregulated mail order firearms' sales died with the 1968 Gun Control Act. Sales shipments have to be made FFL holder to FFL holder.

Tell me about background checks done for online sales.

 

[Rob_BW]

I've never bought a gun anywhere. Go ahead. Tell me about background checks done for online sales.

The last firearm I purchased online was through Central Missouri Machine Gun, or CMMG. Every few years, they have a "scratch and dent" sale that has some great deals.

So, a few years ago, I see a firearm that I would like on their website. I "drop it in my shopping cart," like any other online retailer. But, in a remarks box, I had to input the name and address of the local Federal Firearms License holder who would be handling the transfer.

Once that was done, they charge my credit card and begin processing my order. I call the local gun store, Shooter's Supply, and give them a heads up that I'm using them to transfer.

CMMG ships the gun to Shooter's, and send me the tracking number. When the rifle shows up, I travel to Shooter's, and they fill out the standard ATF Form 4473, just as if I was buying a firearm that they had stocked. For their 5 minutes of trouble, I pay them their going rate of 20 bucks for the transfer.

 

[Revmitchell]

As I understand the system, sales are done through FFL dealers. IOW:

• I find a rifle at an online sale site.
• I make arrangements with my local FFL dealer for the rifle to be shipped to his\her shop.
• My local FFL dealer fills out the background paperwork and sends it off to the powers that be.
• I clear the background check and pick up the rifle.

The days of unregulated mail order firearms' sales died with the 1968 Gun Control Act. Sales shipments have to be made FFL holder to FFL holder.

awww you ruined it. I was curious to see how many posts he would make not knowing what he was talking about.

 

[FollowTheWay]

The last firearm I purchased online was through Central Missouri Machine Gun, or CMMG. Every few years, they have a "scratch and dent" sale that has some great deals.

So, a few years ago, I see a firearm that I would like on their website. I "drop it in my shopping cart," like any other online retailer. But, in a remarks box, I had to input the name and address of the local Federal Firearms License holder who would be handling the transfer.

Once that was done, they charge my credit card and begin processing my order. I call the local gun store, Shooter's Supply, and give them a heads up that I'm using them to transfer.

CMMG ships the gun to Shooter's, and send me the tracking number. When the rifle shows up, I travel to Shooter's, and they fill out the standard ATF Form 4473, just as if I was buying a firearm that they had stocked. For their 5 minutes of trouble, I pay them their going rate of 20 bucks for the transfer.

That sounds like the correct procedure. I'm just questioning whether that's followed all or even most of the time for gun purchases online.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

From the evidence available so far, including the study linked to in the OP, it is.

That sounds like the correct procedure. I'm just questioning whether that's followed all or even most of the time for gun purchases online.

 

[Reynolds]

My comment has to do with gun sales I consider to be inherently dangerous as are on-line gun sales. Duh.

You have no clue what you speak of. For all practical purposes there is no such thing as an "online gun sale." You order a gun online, but it can only be shipped to a FFL where an in person transfer must occur.

 

[Rob_BW]

That sounds like the correct procedure. I'm just questioning whether that's followed all or even most of the time for gun purchases online.

Well, first we have to establish what an online sale is.

Face to face sales are pretty much legal, so is using a site like armslist to facilitate a face to face sale an online sale?

My father in law likes .22s and Remingtons. I decided to by him a Nylon 66 for his birthday. I checked the North Carolina listings on armslist for a few weeks, til one showed up for the right price.

I then contacted the seller, who was 15 miles up the road. We set a time to meet, and I purchased the rifle from him. It was a pre-68 specimen, too, so it didn't have a serial number.

So, a legal sale, and the seller used a website to advertise. But it was a legal face to face sale.

To me, an online sale means paying online and the seller shipping the item to you. I just don't believe that throngs of unlicensed, illegal sellers are taking credit card payments and shipping guns through the mail.

 

[Don]

That sounds like the correct procedure. I'm just questioning whether that's followed all or even most of the time for gun purchases online.

Referring to the opening post AGAIN - democrats have found that IT IS followed by 100% of the online sellers they attempted to trap.

You've dug yourself a deep hole in this thread, and you just keep digging.

 

[Reynolds]

That sounds like the correct procedure. I'm just questioning whether that's followed all or even most of the time for gun purchases online.

It is followed all of the time. The BATFE regularly audits FFL dealers. If they find even one firearm missing or illegally transferred, there will be Hell to pay.
I was in my the shop of a dealer I know several months ago and the BATFE had the shop locked down because of one missing gun. It was not missing, it was at the gunsmith (who also had a manufacturers FFL) being repaired. He had to bring the rifle and his FFL to satisfy the agent. She still fussed them out about improper documentation.

 

[just-want-peace]

And Trump is still (you fill in the blank) in spite of his physicians report!!
Facts are irrelevant, feelings/wishes/desires/talking points are paramount!! (Doncha know?)

 

[Reynolds]

Referring to the opening post AGAIN - democrats have found that IT IS followed by 100% of the online sellers they attempted to trap.

You've dug yourself a deep hole in this thread, and you just keep digging.

He is schooled in Democrat debate; which is to repeat a lie long enough for it to be accepted as truth.

 

[Reynolds]

So you support "illicit online gun sales?" Do you support selling guns to those with significant mental problems?

Maybe. I have shot for over 30 years with a Vietnam war sniper. He is 100% disabled from PTSD related syndromes. He has been disabled for over 20 years. I am 100% fine with him having firearms. Far as I know, he has not killed anyone since he got home from Nam. Killed a lot of folks there.

 

[FollowTheWay]

You have no clue what you speak of. For all practical purposes there is no such thing as an "online gun sale." You order a gun online, but it can only be shipped to a FFL where an in person transfer must occur.

Semi-Automatic Weapons Without A Background Check Can Be Just A Click Away
Semi-Automatic Weapons without A Background Check Can Be Just A Click Away

Armslist, often described as "the Craigslist for guns," doesn't vet sales arranged through its website, and its existence is legal. Its terms of use say users have to follow all laws, federal or otherwise, and that it's "the sole responsibility of the buyer and seller to conduct safe and legal transactions."

There's no federal law requiring a private gun owner to run a background check before selling someone a gun. At least 18 states (and the District of Columbia) have their own laws for private firearms sales, and some require background checks in some cases. So do some cities. But — and more on this in a bit — there's evidence that not all private buyers and sellers follow the rules. Illegal sales happen, and currently, there's no way to stop them.

In October, Harvard researchers surveyed 2,000 gun owners and found that roughly 40 percent got their most recent gun without submitting to a background check. That finding lines up with an earlier survey from 1994.

And in 2012, a Wisconsin man named Radcliffe Haughton bought a pistol in a McDonald's parking lot from a seller he had met on Armslist. He had posted a "gun wanted" listing on Armslist three days after his wife acquired a restraining order against him for domestic violence — making it illegal for him to purchase a gun. He wrote:

"Looking to buy ASAP. Prefer full size, any caliber. Email ASAP. I constantly check my emails. Hoping it has a high mag capacity with the handgun, ammo, accessories. I am a serious buyer. Email me ASAP. Have cash now and looking to buy now. I am mobile."

The next day, Haughton murdered his wife and two of her co-workers before killing himself.

 

[Reynolds]

Semi-Automatic Weapons Without A Background Check Can Be Just A Click Away
Semi-Automatic Weapons without A Background Check Can Be Just A Click Away

Armslist, often described as "the Craigslist for guns," doesn't vet sales arranged through its website, and its existence is legal. Its terms of use say users have to follow all laws, federal or otherwise, and that it's "the sole responsibility of the buyer and seller to conduct safe and legal transactions."

There's no federal law requiring a private gun owner to run a background check before selling someone a gun. At least 18 states (and the District of Columbia) have their own laws for private firearms sales, and some require background checks in some cases. So do some cities. But — and more on this in a bit — there's evidence that not all private buyers and sellers follow the rules. Illegal sales happen, and currently, there's no way to stop them.

In October, Harvard researchers surveyed 2,000 gun owners and found that roughly 40 percent got their most recent gun without submitting to a background check. That finding lines up with an earlier survey from 1994.

And in 2012, a Wisconsin man named Radcliffe Haughton bought a pistol in a McDonald's parking lot from a seller he had met on Armslist. He had posted a "gun wanted" listing on Armslist three days after his wife acquired a restraining order against him for domestic violence — making it illegal for him to purchase a gun. He wrote:

"Looking to buy ASAP. Prefer full size, any caliber. Email ASAP. I constantly check my emails. Hoping it has a high mag capacity with the handgun, ammo, accessories. I am a serious buyer. Email me ASAP. Have cash now and looking to buy now. I am mobile."

The next day, Haughton murdered his wife and two of her co-workers before killing himself.

That is a private sell, not an online sale. Use of proper terminology would be most helpful in having an actual productive discussion. The BATFE has rules prohibiting non face to face interstate private transfers as well. Intrastate shipping between private parties is left to the jurisdiction of each state, as it should be!