OldRegular
Well-Known Member
God does not have a political party and to say He does may not be blasphemy but if it is not it is getting real close. </font>[/QUOTE]Consider the source, Ken.
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Democrat Politicians
- Thread starter OldRegular
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I am pro-choice. I believe in individual freedom. I don't want a socialist govenment as espoused by the democrat party telling me what to do. However, for the Christian, freedom to choose does not extend to supporting the murder of unborn children. Do you disagree?
I would also note that since 1980 the Republican Party has taken a position against the murder of unborn children.
Some in the Republican Party have, some haven't. There are many in the GOP who support the right to an abortion. There are probably more Democrats that do, but that doesn't change the fact that many in the GOP including many in the GOP leadership do support the murder of unborn children. I only know of one political party that is 100% pro-life.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Ken H claims to know the mind of God. You claim to know the mind of everyone in an unamed political party. Is it a party of one, yourself, or am I in the presence of holy men of old translated to the present?
Ken H claims to know the mind of God. You claim to know the mind of everyone in an unamed political party. Is it a party of one, yourself, or am I in the presence of holy men of old translated to the present? </font>[/QUOTE]It's not about being "holy men of old", but standing by your principles and finding a political party that does the same. Both the Deomcrats and the GOP have a platform that is ignored by most within their party, both allow both pro-life and pro-abortion candidates to run on their party ticket, and both parties support both pro-life and pro-abortion candidates.
The Constitution Party is the only political party that acknowledges in their platform that "the pre-born child, whose life begins at fertilization, is a human being created in God's image. The first duty of the law is to prevent the shedding of innocent blood. It is, therefore, the duty of all civil governments to secure and to safeguard the lives of the pre-born." It goes on to say, "We affirm the God-given legal personhood of all unborn human beings, without exception. As to matters of rape and incest, it is unconscionable to take the life of an innocent child for the crimes of his father."
So as I stated before, they are the only political party that is 100% pro-life!
Source: Constitution Party National Platform
Any candidate or state party that is not 100% pro-life is disaffiliated from the party by the national party and recieves no support from the national or other affiliated state parties.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
2004 Republican Platform - Promoting a Culture of Life
As a country, we must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.
Our goal is to ensure that women with problem pregnancies have the kind of support, material and otherwise, they need for themselves and for their babies, not to be punitive towards those for whose difficult situation we have only compassion. We oppose abortion, but our pro-life agenda does not include punitive action against women who have an abortion. We salute those who provide alternatives to abortion and offer adoption services, and we commend Congressional Republicans for expanding assistance to adopting families and for removing racial barriers to adoption. We join the President in supporting crisis pregnancy programs and parental notification laws. And we applaud President Bush for allowing states to extend health care coverage to unborn children.
We praise the President for his bold leadership in defense of life. We praise him for signing the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. This important legislation ensures that every infant born alive – including an infant who survives an abortion procedure – is considered a person under federal law.
We praise Republicans in Congress for passing, with strong bipartisan support, a ban on the inhumane procedure known as partial birth abortion. And we applaud President Bush for signing legislation outlawing partial birth abortion and for vigorously defending it in the courts.
In signing the partial birth abortion ban, President Bush reminded us that “the most basic duty of government is to defend the life of the innocent. Every person, however frail or vulnerable, has a place and a purpose in this world.” We affirm the inherent dignity and worth of all people. We oppose the non-consensual withholding of care or treatment because of disability, age, or infirmity, just as we oppose euthanasia and assisted suicide, which especially endanger the poor and those on the margins of society. We support President Bush’s decision to restore the Drug Enforcement Administration’s policy that controlled substances shall not be used for assisted suicide. We applaud Congressional Republicans for their leadership against those abuses and their pioneering legislation to focus research and treatment resources on the alleviation of pain and the care of terminally ill patients.
As a country, we must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.
Our goal is to ensure that women with problem pregnancies have the kind of support, material and otherwise, they need for themselves and for their babies, not to be punitive towards those for whose difficult situation we have only compassion. We oppose abortion, but our pro-life agenda does not include punitive action against women who have an abortion. We salute those who provide alternatives to abortion and offer adoption services, and we commend Congressional Republicans for expanding assistance to adopting families and for removing racial barriers to adoption. We join the President in supporting crisis pregnancy programs and parental notification laws. And we applaud President Bush for allowing states to extend health care coverage to unborn children.
We praise the President for his bold leadership in defense of life. We praise him for signing the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. This important legislation ensures that every infant born alive – including an infant who survives an abortion procedure – is considered a person under federal law.
We praise Republicans in Congress for passing, with strong bipartisan support, a ban on the inhumane procedure known as partial birth abortion. And we applaud President Bush for signing legislation outlawing partial birth abortion and for vigorously defending it in the courts.
In signing the partial birth abortion ban, President Bush reminded us that “the most basic duty of government is to defend the life of the innocent. Every person, however frail or vulnerable, has a place and a purpose in this world.” We affirm the inherent dignity and worth of all people. We oppose the non-consensual withholding of care or treatment because of disability, age, or infirmity, just as we oppose euthanasia and assisted suicide, which especially endanger the poor and those on the margins of society. We support President Bush’s decision to restore the Drug Enforcement Administration’s policy that controlled substances shall not be used for assisted suicide. We applaud Congressional Republicans for their leadership against those abuses and their pioneering legislation to focus research and treatment resources on the alleviation of pain and the care of terminally ill patients.
If you're gonna talk about Parties and what they're doing wrong, why is it and people jump on the Abortion and Homosexual issues?
Isn't being a Christian MUCH MUCH more than that? How about lying? Cheating? Stealing? Deceiving? Power Trips?
ALL these should be looked at when looking at a party, a man/woman running for office. If you look at ALL of these issues where they fall WAY short of a Christian lifestyle, then you will see my point about it NOT being about any one party or the other.
We should vote for our VALUES as Christians. If none of the people have values we agree with, then step up to the plate and get your friend, your family member, your whomever to run so we can CHANGE the system instead of just starting thread after thread after thread after thread about it.
I can't imaigine the threads that went on here on a Baptist Board during the past POTUS election!
Get over the Dems vers Reps mindset, it's an US ver THEM fight, but it's not Dems or Reps,
it's Christian vers Non-Christian
it's Saved vers unsaved
When you die, if by chance God weighed the number of times you "Stood your Ground" with "your party" vers the number of times you went out and spread his Word, how would that tally look?
Jamie
Isn't being a Christian MUCH MUCH more than that? How about lying? Cheating? Stealing? Deceiving? Power Trips?
ALL these should be looked at when looking at a party, a man/woman running for office. If you look at ALL of these issues where they fall WAY short of a Christian lifestyle, then you will see my point about it NOT being about any one party or the other.
We should vote for our VALUES as Christians. If none of the people have values we agree with, then step up to the plate and get your friend, your family member, your whomever to run so we can CHANGE the system instead of just starting thread after thread after thread after thread about it.
I can't imaigine the threads that went on here on a Baptist Board during the past POTUS election!
Get over the Dems vers Reps mindset, it's an US ver THEM fight, but it's not Dems or Reps,
it's Christian vers Non-Christian
it's Saved vers unsaved
When you die, if by chance God weighed the number of times you "Stood your Ground" with "your party" vers the number of times you went out and spread his Word, how would that tally look?
Jamie
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Looking at the poll results one would think a Florida democrat must be counting the votes.
OldRegular, I have read the GOP platform. What does the party do when a candidate or GOP leader disagrees with that part of the platform? They support them and help them defeat the pro-life conservatives like Bush did when he helped Specter in PA? As I stated before, the GOP doesn't require it's candidates to agree to, or support the platform, so it's nothing more than words on paper.
Bush showed us how easy it is for a candiate to change the platform. If you ever get a change look at the 1996 GOP platform beside the 2000 GOP platform, there are many of the conservative planks that Bush and his crew had removed from the platform, they have shown us over the last five years why those planks were removed.
I'm not questioning wether the GOP mentions the issue of abortion in their platform, I'm just pointing out that there are many GOP poiticians, candidates and leaders who ignore that part of the platform and support the murder of the pre-born children, yet still get the support and votes from conservatives simply because they are part of the GOP.
Bush showed us how easy it is for a candiate to change the platform. If you ever get a change look at the 1996 GOP platform beside the 2000 GOP platform, there are many of the conservative planks that Bush and his crew had removed from the platform, they have shown us over the last five years why those planks were removed.
I'm not questioning wether the GOP mentions the issue of abortion in their platform, I'm just pointing out that there are many GOP poiticians, candidates and leaders who ignore that part of the platform and support the murder of the pre-born children, yet still get the support and votes from conservatives simply because they are part of the GOP.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Jamie
Lying, cheating, stealing are bad but the murder of unborn children [40,000,000 and counting] and the acceptance of homosexual perversion are destroying this nation.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
JGrubbs
And I am saying you cannot speak for all members of the Constitution Party!
And I am saying you cannot speak for all members of the Constitution Party!
Your right, there may be some individual members of the Constitution Party who are not 100% pro-life, but they will never become a candidate or leader within the party if it is known that they are not 100% pro-life! I can honestly say that in the 6 years that I have been an active member of the Constitution Party I have only come across a few members/supporters who were not 100% pro-life, and they are no longer with the party.
Can that be said about the GOP? Alren Spector and other pro-abortion members of the GOP are proof that this is not the case. There are both pro-life and pro-abortion members, politicians and leaders in both of the two major parties.
Can that be said about the GOP? Alren Spector and other pro-abortion members of the GOP are proof that this is not the case. There are both pro-life and pro-abortion members, politicians and leaders in both of the two major parties.
Jamie
Lying, cheating, stealing are bad but the murder of unborn children [40,000,000 and counting] and the acceptance of homosexual perversion are destroying this nation. </font>[/QUOTE]OldRegular,
Pull out your Bible and look over this verse and then come back to me...
Luk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother.
I don't think Jesus cares WHAT sin you're sinning with, except for one, they are ALL equal.
Jamie
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Jamie
Lying, cheating, stealing are bad but the murder of unborn children [40,000,000 and counting] and the acceptance of homosexual perversion are destroying this nation. </font>[/QUOTE]OldRegular,
Pull out your Bible and look over this verse and then come back to me...
Luk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother.
I don't think Jesus cares WHAT sin you're sinning with, except for one, they are ALL equal.
Jamie </font>[/QUOTE]Jamie
I did not speak as to how God looked upon sin. I simply stated: "... the murder of unborn children [40,000,000 and counting] and the acceptance of homosexual perversion are destroying this nation."
That being said I don't believe that you can prove from Scripture that all sins are equal. I invite you to read the following passage:
Romans 1:18-32
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
OldRegular,
The way I read it, and see it is that ALL sin except for one is equal in that they will make me unworthy of heaven. They will all cause us to fall short of the glory of God.
Now, a way to put it, at least one I have read that makes it clearer would be All sin is equal as is all pain is equal.
Now, we all know that there are different levels of pain. Anyone that has a headache vers someone that has had a heart attack can you tell, there are difference in the pain.
However, any sin makes one unworthy of Heaven. So, in this case, a Sin is a Sin.
The difference being, and as stated in this verse:
1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
So, all sin makes us unrighteous, but not all sin will casue us death. We can can overcome these through prayer and asking for forgiveness, and through Jesus Christ.
So, in my views, that way I read it, ALL sin are equal in that ALL sin will prevent me from getting to heaven. Since I want to go to heaven, and strive to live as a sinless person, as much as a sinful man can, I don't get into the "degrees" of sin, All sin will make me fall short of my goal, so in my mind a SIN is a SIN.
The whole point of this conversation is to try to show people that they will point fingers at a lot of things, while over looking other things, and it shouldn't be this way. We should teach people/politicicans, anyone that what they are doing is wrong, even if it's a "smaller" sin.
We shouldn't hold one sin as "ok" and other sins as "not ok". But you see it all the time, Politican ok with Abortion = BAD : Politican lying to get the job = "price for doing business"
Very bad mistake in my opinion.
Jamie
The way I read it, and see it is that ALL sin except for one is equal in that they will make me unworthy of heaven. They will all cause us to fall short of the glory of God.
Now, a way to put it, at least one I have read that makes it clearer would be All sin is equal as is all pain is equal.
Now, we all know that there are different levels of pain. Anyone that has a headache vers someone that has had a heart attack can you tell, there are difference in the pain.
However, any sin makes one unworthy of Heaven. So, in this case, a Sin is a Sin.
The difference being, and as stated in this verse:
1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
So, all sin makes us unrighteous, but not all sin will casue us death. We can can overcome these through prayer and asking for forgiveness, and through Jesus Christ.
So, in my views, that way I read it, ALL sin are equal in that ALL sin will prevent me from getting to heaven. Since I want to go to heaven, and strive to live as a sinless person, as much as a sinful man can, I don't get into the "degrees" of sin, All sin will make me fall short of my goal, so in my mind a SIN is a SIN.
The whole point of this conversation is to try to show people that they will point fingers at a lot of things, while over looking other things, and it shouldn't be this way. We should teach people/politicicans, anyone that what they are doing is wrong, even if it's a "smaller" sin.
We shouldn't hold one sin as "ok" and other sins as "not ok". But you see it all the time, Politican ok with Abortion = BAD : Politican lying to get the job = "price for doing business"
Very bad mistake in my opinion.
Jamie
Your right it's wrong for a politician to lie, cheat and steal to get into office, regardless of his party affiliation. But, when that politician supports the murder of the pre-born child through abortion, then that politician helps contribute to 4,000+ babies being butchered daily.
I don't care if they are right in line with everything else I believe, but they are pro-abortion, they are not worthy of my, or any other Christians vote! Abortion is the American Holocaust, and has taken more lives than any terrorist or dictator has ever taken!
These children are being terrorized in their mother's womb, this makes abortion doctors legal domestic terroist!
I don't care if they are right in line with everything else I believe, but they are pro-abortion, they are not worthy of my, or any other Christians vote! Abortion is the American Holocaust, and has taken more lives than any terrorist or dictator has ever taken!
These children are being terrorized in their mother's womb, this makes abortion doctors legal domestic terroist!
The Galatian
Active Member
Amen to that.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Jamie
I repeat, I did not speak as to how God looked upon sin. I simply stated that the murder of unborn children [40,000,000 and counting] and the acceptance of homosexual perversion as an acceptable lifestyle are destroying the moral fabric of this nation.
If you choose to play God and not distinguish between lying and cheating and the murder of unborn children and accepting homosexual perversion that is your perogative. I am not sure that God is as neutral as you, particularly considering the passage I quoted from Romans.
I repeat, I did not speak as to how God looked upon sin. I simply stated that the murder of unborn children [40,000,000 and counting] and the acceptance of homosexual perversion as an acceptable lifestyle are destroying the moral fabric of this nation.
If you choose to play God and not distinguish between lying and cheating and the murder of unborn children and accepting homosexual perversion that is your perogative. I am not sure that God is as neutral as you, particularly considering the passage I quoted from Romans.