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Depression
- Thread starter Thankful
- Start date
That's right he didn't and so we have no reason to feel fear, it's not from God. You DO Have the Spirit of peace, so you have everything within you already to feel that peace. God's power is where we get the sound mind, man can't give it to us.
That's like the charasmatics who are sitting around praying for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit to happen to them. It's foolishness to seek something you already have! Why pray for them to find answers that God already gave us in His Word? You said you agreed that we have the Spirit of a sound mind. Why not use it?
Is that Spirit within you or not? If so why isn't your mind sound? Either the Bible is true and you do or it lies.
~Lorelei
That's like the charasmatics who are sitting around praying ......I thought you were charismatic..or at least Pentecostal....IF only you believe Hard enough.......well, Lord save us from fundamentalists and self-righteous prigs who see life through a dark glass but one day the glass will be lifted and they will see the light....
And when the good Samaritain was passing by, he looked down at the ill man and said,,,,,If only you believed hard enough, you wouldn't be in this state and I wouldn't have to take you to a hotel to be fed and cared for...Believe man! shake off your unbelief and rise......Say after me,,,,,Believe..believe.......believe.......Stop the nonsense before someone gets seriously hurt by reading some of these threads.
Cheers,
Jim
And when the good Samaritain was passing by, he looked down at the ill man and said,,,,,If only you believed hard enough, you wouldn't be in this state and I wouldn't have to take you to a hotel to be fed and cared for...Believe man! shake off your unbelief and rise......Say after me,,,,,Believe..believe.......believe.......Stop the nonsense before someone gets seriously hurt by reading some of these threads.
Cheers,
Jim
Lorelei,
What you might not have taken time to now is that most christians who have had depression have some wonderful testimonies of the power and love of God. Most reconize that the meds do not heal them,they make it bearable while they are leaning on God, waiting for His healing, they will testify that God carried them through, and they owe their being to Him alone. Not one(most?) will tell you that they were not healed by drugs. But by God. Maybe you should stop critizing what you don't know and start listening to those peopel instead of nameing them as less then you, not worthy or not caring about God. This is nothing more then your personal opinion, with no scripture to back it up.
What you might not have taken time to now is that most christians who have had depression have some wonderful testimonies of the power and love of God. Most reconize that the meds do not heal them,they make it bearable while they are leaning on God, waiting for His healing, they will testify that God carried them through, and they owe their being to Him alone. Not one(most?) will tell you that they were not healed by drugs. But by God. Maybe you should stop critizing what you don't know and start listening to those peopel instead of nameing them as less then you, not worthy or not caring about God. This is nothing more then your personal opinion, with no scripture to back it up.
How dare you compare christians to false religions!
With attitudes like yours it's a wonder anyone even looks at christianity, I am so glad God is the one who draws people to Him. You show a total lack of love for fellow christians, you demonstrate it not only on this thread, but on many I've seen you take part in. Isn't love a fruit of the spirit?
What about things like cancer? Isn't God more powerful then cancer? So no one with cancer needs meds, or medical treatment, all they really need to do it have faith? I guess you never go to a doctor, never take your children to a doctor? After all you don't need them, do you.
Like I said above, if you'd bother yourself with l.istening to what people who've had depression have to say you'd hear testimonies of a powerful God in thier lives, God lifted and carried them when they didn't have the strength to do so. But you don't really care about people's testimony of God do you?
Not one person on here whose been through depression has said anything about leaving God out of anything, you made that up yourself. Your the one who feels justified to judge others faith in God, their actual salvation. You have no right to do either of these. While you busy examining peoples fruit of the spirit, maybe you need to examine your own. Your posts have been nothing but hate filled, you have choosen a people you do not like, and do not accept as christian, even to the point of insulting them by comparing them to muslims, and others who believe in false gods.
Those facts contradict God's Word.
The doctors here have admitted that it is at least part spiritual and the Bible tells us that spiritual things can only be spiritually discerned.
As I have already quoted. The love of God is beyond ALL knowledge and the peace of God passes ALL understanding. The Bible says that only the spirit within a man can know what he thinks. The Bible says that what they are attempting to prove Can NOT be done.
If you would read my posts with the same fruit of the spirit you are accusing me of not having you would have no grounds to make the accusations against me that you have. The fruit of the Spirit is not anger, malice, revenge or indignation.
I never thought I would see the day on the BB where the only person who was being ridiculed, rejected and mocked was the only one using scripture to support their claims.
God said it, not me.
~Lorelei
[ February 20, 2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Lorelei ]
If you would read my posts you would already have an answer to this question. God never promises us physical health. He DOES promise us spiritual health, a sound mind.
Paul told Timothy to take some wine for his stomach problems, so I know according to the Bible that medicine is acceptable to use to help conrol my physical well being. That is scriptural.
Paul never told anyone to take medication for anxiety, fear, hopelessness and despair. He said "don't be anxious" and instructed us to be thankful in all things. He said to rejoice always, that our hope was in the Lord. Re read the scriptures. The Bible is clear that the Spirit within us has ALL that we need to experience peace, hope, love and joy. EVERYTHING.
Again, I REPEAT. There is no mention of any part of the fruit of the spirit that assures us physical well being, but all them assure us of a sound mind. The fruit of the Spirit is the exact OPPOSITE of how depression is defined.
~Lorelei
I am under the impression from God's Word that the heart,mind,and sould are inseperable...so the condition of these are spiritual issues. The physical body does need medical attention at times...and possibly if there is a brain chemical imbalance(that can be proven),then I could see how medicine might help...but these other things,I'm not sure how all this fits into medicine. Okay,deep dpression that causes people to want to commit suicide or kill others need medical help,but over spending money and mood swings(Like what I have read about Bi-polar) seems more of a spiritual issue....focusing the mind on how to live according to His Word. When I feel irritated or upset,I try to remember what God's word says. I also realize maybe some with real problems can not do this. All I can say is,I do not understand it and think a lot of it is not medical.
JMO!
JMO!
Am I to take this personally? Are you saying that I am not of sound mind? Or that I am not using a sound mind?
Are you questioning if the Holy Spirit is within me?
Are you questioning if I think the Bible is the Word of God and is true?
I certainly hope that I have not given this impression to anyone else by agreeing with you.
I have a very, very strong faith in God and no one is going to make me question my faith in God by their beliefs.
I further do not think the mentally ill can read the Bible and be cured by reading the Bible. It is possible, but not probable. God gave us his word, his promises, and the medical profession.
My apologies for directing the statement in this manner. When posting, I try to address the issues and when I said you, I meant you in a general sense, though I see how that didn't come across as I intended it.
My meaning, if the Bible says we have the Spirit that gives us a sound mind, then why are christians depressed? A depressed mind is not a sound mind.
But no, I was not saying that you personally were not of a sound mind. Please forgive that misrepresentation on my part, I never meant it to be applied that way.
I question why you say you believe it's true but doubt that the Spirit actually gives us peace of mind.
Are you saying depressed people are illiterate? Saying they can't read it is confusing, I am not understanding what you mean by this, please clarify.
What about people who experienced depression before the knowledge of what we call "clinical depression" existed? What about people who experienced depression before the drugs that everyone is taking were invented? Blindness was blindness in the days of the Bible and it is blindness now. Depression is not a physical illness and as I clearly showed the spiritual can not be disected by the man. God says that they can not fathom it.
~Lorelei
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
In the last couple of weeks, I've had two of my 70's friends spend the night in the hospital for small strokes. Each onesurvived with no permanant damage because each had a person nearby who could recognize behavior signs of a stroke. Each was taken to an ER. Only one of these people noticed that there was a problem.
A stroke, a medical condition, occurs in two manners:
1) a blood vessel in the brain bursts. This deprives part of the brain of needed oxygen.
2) a blood vessel gets clogged and deprives part of the brain of oxygen.
Strokes are not mentioned in the Bible. Until about 80 years ago, they were construed by most religious people as a personal weakness.
A stroke, a medical condition, occurs in two manners:
1) a blood vessel in the brain bursts. This deprives part of the brain of needed oxygen.
2) a blood vessel gets clogged and deprives part of the brain of oxygen.
Strokes are not mentioned in the Bible. Until about 80 years ago, they were construed by most religious people as a personal weakness.
I see lots of anger and malice in this thread, but it isn't coming from where most of you are claiming. Lorelei's posts have been well thought out, gentle and truthful , and we all know that sometimes the truth hurts. But when it's backed by the word of God, we as Christians are supposed to listen, learn, and admit when we're wrong.
God does promise us a sound mind. Anyone care to argue that from scripture ? I certainly cannot. I was actually on the other side of this debate in another thread entitled psychology, but I can't ignore Gods word any longer. You see, I have also experienced depression. The kind where I didn't really want to live any longer. But I have to admit that what started me down that road was my thoughts and attitude and it snowballed from there. I got my mind off of Christ, and on to myself. Face it, how could a blood bought Christian with their mind fixed on Christ get so depressed as to want to die? It's when we start thinking about our aches and pains or start worrying about financial problems or the fact that Suzi and John have a new car and I drive a junker, etc. That's when the slide starts.
But we have the Creator of the Universe as our Father! What is too difficult for Him? He has promised us in His word a sound mind! All we need to do is claim that promise. And yes, if he had promised us sound bodies in His word, then we could claim that too, but He didn't. So the cancer, broken leg, broken arm, etc. argument doesn't work here. By all means seek medical treatment for those things, but a Christians mind is God's territory, and He promised it would be sound. I see no disclaimers in scripture where our minds will be sound but if they are not, go get yourself some antidepressants. The bible, as Lorelei has pointed out numerous times, says that a believers state of mind is a choice.
. 4 Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice. 5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. 6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, F14 whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
What these verses say to me personally is that if I pray and thank God and ask Him to meet my needs, He says that His peace which passes all understanding will keep my heart and mind through Christ Jesus. Sounds like a clear promise to me.
Another thing I would like to point out about all the medical facts that have been referred to is that they aren't facts but theories. It's the medical community's best guess as to what may be going on. If you don't believe me, then check out the wording in the posted material. I'm not knocking the medical community, just pointing out a fact about their research that was misrepresented here by some.
I am not out to condemn anyone here and I don't believe Lorelei is either. Sometimes we don't like what God's word says. It makes us uncomfortable. Sometimes the Christian life isn't the easy way to go, but it's the best way.
God does promise us a sound mind. Anyone care to argue that from scripture ? I certainly cannot. I was actually on the other side of this debate in another thread entitled psychology, but I can't ignore Gods word any longer. You see, I have also experienced depression. The kind where I didn't really want to live any longer. But I have to admit that what started me down that road was my thoughts and attitude and it snowballed from there. I got my mind off of Christ, and on to myself. Face it, how could a blood bought Christian with their mind fixed on Christ get so depressed as to want to die? It's when we start thinking about our aches and pains or start worrying about financial problems or the fact that Suzi and John have a new car and I drive a junker, etc. That's when the slide starts.
But we have the Creator of the Universe as our Father! What is too difficult for Him? He has promised us in His word a sound mind! All we need to do is claim that promise. And yes, if he had promised us sound bodies in His word, then we could claim that too, but He didn't. So the cancer, broken leg, broken arm, etc. argument doesn't work here. By all means seek medical treatment for those things, but a Christians mind is God's territory, and He promised it would be sound. I see no disclaimers in scripture where our minds will be sound but if they are not, go get yourself some antidepressants. The bible, as Lorelei has pointed out numerous times, says that a believers state of mind is a choice.
. 4 Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice. 5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. 6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, F14 whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
What these verses say to me personally is that if I pray and thank God and ask Him to meet my needs, He says that His peace which passes all understanding will keep my heart and mind through Christ Jesus. Sounds like a clear promise to me.
Another thing I would like to point out about all the medical facts that have been referred to is that they aren't facts but theories. It's the medical community's best guess as to what may be going on. If you don't believe me, then check out the wording in the posted material. I'm not knocking the medical community, just pointing out a fact about their research that was misrepresented here by some.
I am not out to condemn anyone here and I don't believe Lorelei is either. Sometimes we don't like what God's word says. It makes us uncomfortable. Sometimes the Christian life isn't the easy way to go, but it's the best way.
Charlotte Marcel
New Member
What I see is a few head strong people who are firmly planted in what they believe to be true, thinking that if they just debate their viewpoint long enough that the opposite view point will at some point agree with them.
I have seen scriptures used by both sides of the discussion. I have seen faith, true and strong in both sides of the discussion. What I have seen little of is a will to understand with humility and compassion. I have seen it from the afflicted but not of the ones who would judge them. Perhaps that is what trials are used for, to learn and to teach compassion for our fellow human beings.
Accept that we are not God. Accept that no matter how learned we are in the words of the Bible we cannot know the fullness of the scriptures until we are made like Him after our life here is past. Be humble and esteem others higher than yourselves. This admonition is coming from a woman in her 60's who has seen how a lack of compassion will quench a Christians spirit.
I have a question for Lorelei and Molly: What should a Christian who has clinical depression do when their prayers are not aswered for the removal of this trial from their lives? Prayers are not always answered "Yes". sometimes they are "No" or "Wait". We do not know the full plan of our lives. Is it possible that God is using this trial for a purpose that you could not be aware of? Do you think that you could be compassionate towards those who are dealing with a trial that you you don't understand or believe to be true?
Elihu reminded Job of the Greatness of God using the Holy scriptures as his justification for his assumption that Job was outside of God's will or that he was being punished for some unrighteousness against God. But he was proven to be incorrect in the end. How difficult it must have been for Job when other believers were critisizing his faith. His illness, his losses were trials, but wasn't enduring the things that his wife and his friends said also a trial?
God bless you all.
Charlotte.
I have seen scriptures used by both sides of the discussion. I have seen faith, true and strong in both sides of the discussion. What I have seen little of is a will to understand with humility and compassion. I have seen it from the afflicted but not of the ones who would judge them. Perhaps that is what trials are used for, to learn and to teach compassion for our fellow human beings.
Accept that we are not God. Accept that no matter how learned we are in the words of the Bible we cannot know the fullness of the scriptures until we are made like Him after our life here is past. Be humble and esteem others higher than yourselves. This admonition is coming from a woman in her 60's who has seen how a lack of compassion will quench a Christians spirit.
I have a question for Lorelei and Molly: What should a Christian who has clinical depression do when their prayers are not aswered for the removal of this trial from their lives? Prayers are not always answered "Yes". sometimes they are "No" or "Wait". We do not know the full plan of our lives. Is it possible that God is using this trial for a purpose that you could not be aware of? Do you think that you could be compassionate towards those who are dealing with a trial that you you don't understand or believe to be true?
Elihu reminded Job of the Greatness of God using the Holy scriptures as his justification for his assumption that Job was outside of God's will or that he was being punished for some unrighteousness against God. But he was proven to be incorrect in the end. How difficult it must have been for Job when other believers were critisizing his faith. His illness, his losses were trials, but wasn't enduring the things that his wife and his friends said also a trial?
God bless you all.
Charlotte.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
Are you saying depressed people are illiterate? Saying they can't read it is confusing, I am not understanding what you mean by this, please clarify.</font>[/QUOTE]LORELEI : What Thankful is saying is that a severely, clinically depressed person can hardly make themselves get out of bed sometimes; let alone pick up a Bible and read it and comprehend it. Their brains are not working right when under a deep depression.
Thank God that He gave men the knowledge to develop medicines to get them through this period so they CAN read the Bible and be completely healed!
II Timothy 1:7 says that God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but Satan is the ruler of this world right now and he hath certainly given us a LOT of things we do not want!
I have not seen much love coming from your posts. I hope no one in your family ever gets depressed because it would be sad if they had to listen to your views on the subject!
KATE , a resounding AMEN!!!!!!!!!!
