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Destiny of the un-evangelized
- Thread starter robustheologian
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I am glad I have not caused you consternation.
Ah its just funny that we all have our little take on how we interpret scripture. There was a very nice but serious Lutheran minister by me that was firmly convinced that his way was absolutely correct & he was bound to teach me it & in doing so, break me of this Baptist thing I had going on (I'm certain he thought me an apostate). I finally told him I didn't agree & would not be coming back....and that made him angry. Then I asked him to put himself into my shoes, would he & his family ever go to a Baptist Church & learn the Baptist doctrines & the answer came back....."absolutely not!" So I said that was the exact way I felt about Lutheranism! He then understood & shut up. :smilewinkgrin:
BrotherJoseph
Well-Known Member
Brother Earth,
So what do you do when a Jehovah Witness or Mormon comes to your place? Do they have them in New Jersey? LOL
Do a study on the "kingdom of God/Heaven" and see if you find it going on prior to the NT preaching of it. Let me know what you find in the OT. And it is in there (Nic should have known it was coming) but you will find it is spoken of as a "new" covenant to come.
"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". (Matt 4:7)
If I misunderstood, then you should clarify your post, I quoted what you said.
BrotherJoseph
Well-Known Member
Brother Steaver,
Being born again was not a new doctrine. This is why Jesus said to Nicodemus when he asked how these things could be, "10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?". In other words, Jesus was saying this is not something new and Nicodemus thus should have known about it. This is why n the old Testament we read, "11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." (Psalm 51:11) Also, if the Holy Spirit didn't indwell the Old Testament saints how then can Peter declare, "holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2 Peter 1:21)
I have pasted a paragraph from article by AW Pink on this subject below http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Holy_Spirit/spirit_06.htm I do not agree with a lot of what he writes in the article, but I do agree with the paragraph below and believe it sheds some light on the subject.
"The Holy Spirit
by A. W. Pink
Chapter 6
The Holy Spirit During the Old Testament Ages
A verse which has been grossly perverted by many of our moderns is John 7:39, "The Holy Spirit was not yet given, because that Jesus was not yet glorified." It seems passing strange that with the Old Testament in their hands, some men should place the construction which they do upon those words. The words "was not yet given" can no more be understood absolutely than "Enoch was not" (Gen. 5:24); they simply mean that the Spirit had not yet been given in His full administrative authority. He was not yet publicly manifested here on earth. All believers, in every age, had been sanctified and comforted by Him, but the "ministration of the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:8) was not at that time fully introduced; the outpouring of the Spirit, in the plentitude of His miraculous gifts, had not then taken place."
Brother Joseph
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Plenty....I really don't antagonize .... I just tell them who I am and what I believe and close the door. My dogs do the rest. Lol:thumbs:
BrotherJoseph
Well-Known Member
Brother Steaver,
How do you reconcile your belief regarding when the Holy Ghost was given only after the glorification with this verse regarding John the Baptist, "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb." (Luke 1:15)?
Brother Joe
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Answer yourself these questions brother; Does the Holy Spirit have many diverse works, or just one?
Does the scripture state that John the Baptist was filled with the gift of living water? What gift was John the Baptist filled with?
There is One Spirit with many attributes which He administers as gifts...
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;.........And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" (Eph4)
John the Baptist was filled by the Holy Spirit as a prophet. To say he was filled with the Spirit's gift of living water would go straightly against John 7. John 7 is specifically clear that the Holy Spirit's living water was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified. You cannot wiggle around this, not Pink, nor any other.
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