Did Billy Graham do More Harm Than Good to the Church?

[rlvaughn]

I have also had some misgivings about some of the strategies but I still think it is a little ghoulish to go after the man before he is even buried.

I will have nothing further to say about this/him after this post; I have nothing personal, though some biblical, against Billy Graham. I wanted to point out that the issue is not just Pro-Calvinism vs. Anti-Calvinism, which seems to be what many Pro-Calvinists vs. Anti-Calvinists want to make it.

 

[JonC]

The praise of Billy Graham indicates something that is think is a serious problem in Christianity : pragmatism. The fact that he won people to Christ does not mean that he did do a lot of harm to the cause of Christ. Who knows how many people were confused and mislead by his intimate association with apostate and his heretical statements, some of which have been posted already.

And while yes Jesus ate with publicans and sinners, he did not however yoke together with Pharisees and Sadducees or send them into the cities to preach alongside his disciples. Shame on anyone who uses the example of Jesus to defend Billy Graham’s compromises.

I don't think that we can judge the man for misleading statements (particularly as he has passed). Just think of other compromises:

Are Pharisee ministers who teach women can't wear pants or couples can't dance automatically disqualified as doing Kingdom work because of their legalism and the confusion they create? What about the King James Only folks that denounce the very Word of God because it is not from their preferred translation? Does one's view about God's mind in election disqualify one as legitimately doing the work of God?

 

[Adonia]

What was Billy's gospel?

Sentimentality aside, did BG proclaim the same gospel as the Apostles did?

What gospel do you or your sect proclaim? Do you have an altar in your church?

 

[Adonia]

Schuller: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?

Graham: Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.

Schuller: What, what I hear you saying that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?

Graham: Yes, it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.

Schuller: [R. S. trips over his tongue for a moment, his face beaming, then says] I'm so thrilled to hear you say this. There's a wideness in God's mercy.

Graham: There is. There definitely is.

Television interview of Dr. Graham by Dr. Schuller continued: Part II was broadcast on Sunday, June 8. The following is an accurate transcription of a segment.*

Schuller: You knew ... Fulton Sheen. You knew these men. Your comments on both of these men [Fulton Sheen and Norman V. Peale].

Graham: The primary way of communicating is to live the life, let people see that you're living what you proclaim.... [comments on his friendship and conversations with Fulton Sheen] I lost a very dear friend, and since that time, the whole relationship between me and my work, and you and your work, and the Roman Catholic Church has changed. They open their arms to welcome us and we have the support of the Catholic Church almost everywhere we go. And I think that we must come to the place where we keep our eyes on Jesus Christ, not on what denomination or what church or what group we belong to.

Billy Graham rightly dropped the falsehood of Fundamentalism and embraced the larger picture of Jesus Christ as He enters the hearts of people, all people from everywhere. In the end we will be judged for our life's journey. One who professes Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and then refuses to help clothe the naked, feed the hungry, or help others who are down and out are not following Jesus. On Judgement day Jesus will say: "Away from me, I do not know you"!

 

[Adonia]

There are more than one kind of judgement.

And you are not the Judge.

 

[JonShaff]

Billy Graham rightly dropped the falsehood of Fundamentalism and embraced the larger picture of Jesus Christ as He enters the hearts of people, all people from everywhere. In the end we will be judged for our life's journey. One who professes Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and then refuses to help clothe the naked, feed the hungry, or help others who are down and out are not following Jesus. On Judgement day Jesus will say: "Away from me, I do not know you"!

This is Heresy. Judged from our Life's Journey? That is not in the Bible. Your works-based salvation will send you into the Pit of hell!!!

"You must be Born Again"--The Lord Jesus

Good works are a result of being saved, not the means for salvation. Christ rose from the dead so that we may have peace with God, trust in Him, not your works!

 

[Adonia]

This is Heresy. Judged from our Life's Journey? That is not in the Bible. Your works-based salvation will send you into the Pit of hell!!!

"You must be Born Again"--The Lord Jesus

Good works are a result of being saved, not the means for salvation. Christ rose from the dead so that we may have peace with God, trust in Him, not your works!

I do trust in Him and what He told me to do and how to live my life. You can claim "I'm saved"! "I'm saved" all day long, but if you brush past that homeless guy who is pleading for something to eat you just brushed past Jesus and Billy Graham realized that as he travelled the world and met different people. Do you have an altar in your church? If not, why not?

 

[JonShaff]

I do trust in Him and what He told me to do and how to live my life. You can claim "I'm saved"! "I'm saved" all day long, but if you brush past that homeless guy who is pleading for something to eat you just brushed past Jesus and Billy Graham realized that as he travelled the world and met different people. Do you have an altar in your church? If not, why not?

You are confusing works with being Justified.

Atheists feed the homeless, are they acquitted of their sin because they do good deeds?

 

[Adonia]

You are confusing works with being Justified.

Atheists feed the homeless, are they acquitted of their sin because they do good deeds?

I am fully willing to let God do the judging of all men at the appropriate time.

"He will render to each one according to his works: by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 1 and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. God shows no partiality". (Rom 2: 5-11)

Here are some helpful quotes.

Revelation 22:12
“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done

Jeremiah 17:10
“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”
Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Hebrews 6:10
For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.
Ephesians 6:8
Knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.

Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

 

[HankD]

And so here is the dilemma here on the BB concerning "good works":

Darned if I do, darned if I dont...

 

[Reformed]

I don't think that we can judge the man for misleading statements (particularly as he has passed). Just think of other compromises:

Are Pharisee ministers who teach women can't wear pants or couples can't dance automatically disqualified as doing Kingdom work because of their legalism and the confusion they create? What about the King James Only folks that denounce the very Word of God because it is not from their preferred translation? Does one's view about God's mind in election disqualify one as legitimately doing the work of God?

Jon,

We are accountable for the things we say or do. I have some things to share about Billy Graham but I will wait a week until the news has died down.



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[JonShaff]

I am fully willing to let God do the judging of all men at the appropriate time.

"He will render to each one according to his works: by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 1 and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. God shows no partiality". (Rom 2: 5-11)

Here are some helpful quotes.

Revelation 22:12
“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done

Jeremiah 17:10
“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”
Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Hebrews 6:10
For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.
Ephesians 6:8
Knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.

Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

When did your Spiritual Birth Happen?

 

[Adonia]

When did your Spiritual Birth Happen?

Well the first time was when I was baptized as a baby and entered into the covenant with God shortly after my arrival here on earth. The second time was during the confirmation process where the idea of the Holy Spirit and how He works in our lives was explained. The third time was when I was about 28 years old and threw myself on the mercy of the Lord, asking Him to forgive me for the most terrible sins I had committed between the ages of 17 and 28. I returned to Him and His Holy Church with a newfound hope for my life and my attempt to live a holy and pleasing life for Him continues to this very day. So as you can see for me it was a trifecta, sort of like the Trinity that we all believe in.

 

[Reynolds]

You raise a good point regarding the confusion that Graham created. He distorted both gospel and Christianity, and because of his reach, that likely confused millions.

I would argue that he "inoculated" people against Christianity. His handy work had millions convinced they were Christians because the walked up front at some event, so they were immune to all future efforts to present the gospel to them.

So Mr Calvinist; How did that stop the irresistible grace extended by God to the elect?
Billy Graham was so powerful he could "inoculate" against the irresistible grace of Sovereign God?

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

The fact that our resident Catholic Apologist, Adonia is praising Billy Graham should cause true bible believers on here to open their eyes.

When the Papists and Catholics praise a bible preacher did that bible teacher really present the Gospel clearly?

How can Satan and Christ have fellowship? How can the false churches and religions work so comfortably with Billy Graham?

 

[Reynolds]

The fact that our resident Catholic Apologist, Adonia is praising Billy Graham should cause true bible believers on here to open their eyes.

When the Papists and Catholics praise a bible preacher did that bible teacher really present the Gospel clearly?

How can Satan and Christ have fellowship? How can the false churches and religions work so comfortably with Billy Graham?

Grahams message was The Cross. Many people with differing opinions loved him because he always showed love. He did not behave like a jack ass eating briars.

 

[JonC]

Jon,

We are accountable for the things we say or do. I have some things to share about Billy Graham but I will wait a week until the news has died down.



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I agree that we will be held accountable for what we teach. But we also have to remember Mr Graham cannot consider our objections, clarify or correct his doctrine. I think we focus on the doctrine and not the man.

There are other false ideas and extra-biblical ideas that color how people understand the gospel message. Some believe that our redemption consisted of God pouring out His anger on Christ and punishing Him for our sin. This is at best theoretical based on Scripture, at worse a false doctrine all together. But I did not see as many protesting when R.C. Sproul died. Yet Sproul, like Graham, preached a message that was an amalgamation of the gospel and his own philosophy/understanding. The gospel still shinned through and God used the preaching of both men (errors and all) to reach many for the Kingdom.

Do I think that both will be held accountable for their error? I do if it is indeed a lapse that falls within their own responsibility. But that's between them and God. I think we honor the men for how God has used them, ultimately honoring God for His work. And we address their error in doctrine as a separate issue.

 

[agedman]

I agree with whoever said we should leave Grahams judgement/reward to God.

I agree.


I would not like to be held to the standard some atttempt in judgement, for they will be held by that same standard.

It is no secrete that I disagreed and stopped supporting Graham, long ago.

But, he did not deny Christ.

He was not morally bankrupt.

And he did hold those under his authority to standards that many churches do not.

He did compromise by endorsing ecumenical modernism, and for that he will answer to God.

As will we all for our own failings.

 

[church mouse guy]

Why are we jumping up and down on his grave when he is not even buried yet?

 

[HankD]

Why are we jumping up and down on his grave when he is not even buried yet?

Because we are awful