Voluntary?
adjective
adjective: voluntary
1.
done, given, or acting of one's own free will.
Requires free will.
Make up your mind Brian.
I'll try not to ruin your joke by telling you that you still don't understand free will. . . oops. . .
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Did Billy Graham do More Harm Than Good to the Church?
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I'll try not to ruin your joke by telling you that you still don't understand free will. . . oops. . .
Apparently neither do youI'll try not to ruin your joke by telling you that you still don't understand free will. . . oops. . .
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
I think that Calvinism has done more to harm the Gospel Message of the Bible, than Billy Graham did.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
How about this?
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Oh good grief, such things are from the past. Your side killed many Catholics and all in the name of God too. Unlike Billy Graham, you are so far from Christ's message of love and leaving all the judging to Him.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
the past is not to be forgotten, as we know from what happened in WWII. Sure we must forgive and forget, but what really happened is historical truth, and lessons for all time
Yes, we do have the historical truth, the historical truth like the One Universal Christian Church from the beginning. No Baptists, no Mormons, no Presbyterians, no Wesleyans, no Assemblies of God, no Lutherans, none of them - it was just the one Universal Church that just about every Christian belonged to and it's Christian orthodox teachings.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
sadly, it is not that simple
The problem is when people associate crimes of the past with the organizations of today. The Catholic Church of today is not the same Catholic Church that killed Jan Hus, for example. The Presbyterians are not the same Calvinists that sought a religious state. The charge of "you used to kill us" is not a legitimate claim (I agree with you on that part).
That said, we also need to keep in mind that the Roman Catholic Church also did not exist from the beginning.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
The RCC may not be killing people physically, but have been and still kill many spiritually!
Mormons are polytheists and are cultic.
Oh, the idea goes back to Romans 1, which says that man has the book of nature and the external universe to show him the truth--the same verses that condemn all non-believers as without excuse.
From what I have read on this thread, almost every Fundamentalist is displeased with Graham. They don't like me either although I am more conservative than some of them. Evangelicals are not attacking Fundamentalists. Most of the disagreement concerns church polity, or so a Fundamentalist who was Indiana State Police chaplain told me years ago.
Graham lies in state in the US Capitol Rotunda. Time will evaluate his legacy. I saw him in 1999. I liked him.
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Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
I too like Graham's love for the lost and desire to see ALL come to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. the Lord used him in many ways, and no doubt will be rewarded for his work. The problem with some "hard-liners" is that they think that only their form of Christianity is the right one, and condemn all others! Graham sadly did have his faults, but I have bigger, and if people were honest on here, they too will admit theirs. Look at one of God's great Kings, David, and what he got up to! we ALL have our faults and weaknesses!
You have it wrong, it is sects like yours that continue to lead people astray. From Martin Luther on down. the falsehoods continue. You follow the teachings of men, in your case a man named John Smyth, who himself was a former Anglican minister.
But you represent ROMAN Catholic church which had a beginning centuries after Christ's resurrection.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Can you tell me from your reading of the Holy Bible, what a sinner must do to be saved and get to heaven? thanks
Not so, we are basically one and the same. See the Early Fathers of the new Christian Church and see how they worshipped. Their worship is more like mine than yours. Do you have an altar in your church? If not, why not? As for the word "Roman", we were called that as an invective by the early protestors.
Let us go to the Scriptures and the words of our blessed Savior, Jesus Christ as related to us in the book of Matthew. It says: “And behold, one came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieved; for he was one who owned much property.” Matt. 19:16-22.
Sounds good to me, how about you?
Do you know of anyone who has done all this?
Unlike the young man who came to Jesus claiming to having done all these things , I haven't - how about you Adonia?
OK once we get that question out of the way - how THEN do we get to heaven after failing to do what He said (assuming you have failed at it)?
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