Did Christ Die For The Sin Of Unbelief?

[AustinC]

Unbelief is the one sin that cannot be atoned for at the cross as it is the unforgivable sin. If a person does not believe then they cannot be saved. Would you not agree with that?

And...there it is. The same faulty thinking I had for years. I even argued unbelief was the unforgivable sin.
I struggled to realize that in making this claim, I was declaring that God was not all powerful. I was declaring that there was a rogue molecule that God was unaware of. I was declaring that I had the final say over God. God could not overcome my willful desire to not believe and therefore, his incapacity to save me from my unbelief meant he left me to die in my one sin for which Jesus could not atone by his blood.

For the longest time, I couldn't see how demeaning and prideful my thoughts were about God. I actually thought I was declaring the greatness of God in having no capacity to atone for that one sin.

Except, one Christian asked that simple question. "Does that make Jesus power less than all powerful?"
I wrestled and wrestled with it. Trying to figure out how I could make God all powerful, if I kept saying that Jesus couldn't atone for unbelief. There was no biblical answer...except to admit that Jesus atonement was only for those whom the Father had given him. Jesus atonement had to be precise and for the elect. Thus not only did he atone for all sin, he also atoned for each person's unbelief.

Silverhair, when I was young and dishonest with my own pride, I believed what you teach now. I see that teaching for what it is...pride. And I reject it entirely as a teaching from carnal man, not from a Holy God. I will not return, like a dog to its own vomit. I entirely reject the man-centered teaching that God did not atone for the sin of unbelief.
God atoned for all the sins of everyone God chooses to redeem. God chooses. We don't.

 

[Silverhair]

Why them Christ died for cant die in unbelief !

Jesus once said Jn 10:26

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

In other words, if they were of His Sheep that He came to live and die in behalf of, they would believe on Him, or they would become believers. Now why is that so ? Because Christ has came and fulfilled the Law for them, and hence its written Rom 10: 4

So what you are saying is that only those that Christ Jesus came to save will be able to believe in Him as they are the only ones enabled to do so. So all those that are not saved really did not have the chance to believe as they, according to your view, we never enabled to do so. Does that really sound like something that the God of the bible would do. remember He say that He desires all to come to a saving knowledge. 1Ti 2:3-4
If you think through the scripture that you have quoted "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." You have Christ Jesus saying you can't believe because I have not given you the ability to do so.

So therefore He had Faith in keeping the Law of God for His People, Hence His Peoples Faith began in Him, when He kept the Law for them.

So that's why its impossible for anyone Christ Lived and died for can live and die in unbelief, seeing they have already in their Surety Head believed ! Its just as sure as not one person Adam represented in his sin for them, can not be born a sinner, to manifest their union with adam when he sinned, and so it is with Christ, not one sinner He lived and died for can live and die without Faith to manifest their union with Christ !

Now you seem to be promoting universalism. Since Christ Jesus' atonement was for all mankind sins then by your words you have everyone saved.

 

[AustinC]

So what you are saying is that only those that Christ Jesus came to save will be able to believe in Him as they are the only ones enabled to do so. So all those that are not saved really did not have the chance to believe as they, according to your view, we never enabled to do so.

Only those for whom Jesus died will desire to believe. Not only have all sinned and fallen short of God's glory, but all peoples, by their own corrupt nature do the following:

Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles. So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies.
~ Romans 1:21-24

You keep parroting that humans didn't have a chance. Such a cry is utterly false. Paul spends the first 11 chapters in his letter to the Romans showing you that both Jew and Gentile are accountable for their sins. Paul, in Romans 9, fully anticipates your complaint and rebukes you. Yet, you keep parroting the complaints that came from the godless persons Paul rebukes.
Romans 9:19-20
Well then, you might say, “Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven’t they simply done what he makes them do?” No, don’t say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, “Why have you made me like this?”

It is amazing to me when you nearly quote the enemies of God, yet have no sense of being wrong.

 

[Silverhair]

And...there it is. The same faulty thinking I had for years. I even argued unbelief was the unforgivable sin.
I struggled to realize that in making this claim, I was declaring that God was not all powerful.

How would this make God less powerful than He is? So are you saying that unbelief is not the unforgivable sin? Are you saying that even though someone does not believe they will be saved?

I was declaring that there was a rogue molecule that God was unaware of. I was declaring that I had the final say over God. God could not overcome my willful desire to not believe and therefore, his incapacity to save me from my unbelief meant he left me to die in my one sin for which Jesus could not atone by his blood.

God indeed could overcome any desire that I have if He so desired to do so, the difference is that I do not view God as a super controller as you seem to. You need God to pick you out as you do not feel capable of looking at what God has shown us through creation and the scriptures and then making a choice to accept or reject His son. Millions of people have done so and yet you feel that you are incapable of doing so. This leads me to ask why?

For the longest time, I couldn't see how demeaning and prideful my thoughts were about God. I actually thought I was declaring the greatness of God in having no capacity to atone for that one sin.

Funny I have never though that way about God. I have always thought that God has a plan for His creation and that He will work out His plan even though He has to do it with a rebellious and sinful creature such as us. I have been humbled by the thought that He loves us enough that we can, through faith, become a child of God the creator and sustainer of all we see and do not see.

As I see it you have failed to see the reality that in order for God to forgive you of your disbelief you have to believe. If God forgave you your unbelief then you could be saved without belief, that is what you are saying even though you will deny that.

Except, one Christian asked that simple question. "Does that make Jesus power less than all powerful?"
I wrestled and wrestled with it. Trying to figure out how I could make God all powerful, if I kept saying that Jesus couldn't atone for unbelief. There was no biblical answer...except to admit that Jesus atonement was only for those whom the Father had given him. Jesus atonement had to be precise and for the elect. Thus not only did he atone for all sin, he also atoned for each person's unbelief.

Now there is quite a leap of logic. How do you go from “make Jesus power less than all powerful” to “atonement was only for those whom the Father had given him”. That does not compute. First how would this make Christ Jesus less than all powerful, since it is God that requires faith/belief.

Secondly your making an assumption based upon your theological view when you say that the atonement is only for a select few. God only grants salvation to those that believe in His son if they do not believe then they are not saved are they.

Silverhair, when I was young and dishonest with my own pride, I believed what you teach now. I see that teaching for what it is...pride. And I reject it entirely as a teaching from carnal man, not from a Holy God. I will not return, like a dog to its own vomit. I entirely reject the man-centered teaching that God did not atone for the sin of unbelief.
God atoned for all the sins of everyone God chooses to redeem. God chooses. We don't.

Austin that you may have been prideful and dishonest with yourself is something only you can deal with. Over the years that I have been studying the scriptures I have not trusted in any man made theology. God has, in His love, provided the means of salvation and it is available to all men. You want to limit those that can be saved to an unknowable select group that you have to hope you are part of. Whereas I see God has said the limit of those that will be saved is decided by those that will answer the question “But who do you say that I am?” with the answer that leads to salvation “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Mat 16:15-16

 

[Silverhair]

Only those for whom Jesus died will desire to believe. Not only have all sinned and fallen short of God's glory, but all peoples, by their own corrupt nature do the following:

Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles. So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies.
~ Romans 1:21-24

You keep parroting that humans didn't have a chance. Such a cry is utterly false. Paul spends the first 11 chapters in his letter to the Romans showing you that both Jew and Gentile are accountable for their sins. Paul, in Romans 9, fully anticipates your complaint and rebukes you. Yet, you keep parroting the complaints that came from the godless persons Paul rebukes.
Romans 9:19-20
Well then, you might say, “Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven’t they simply done what he makes them do?” No, don’t say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, “Why have you made me like this?”

It is amazing to me when you nearly quote the enemies of God, yet have no sense of being wrong.

Austin you keep saying the same thing "Only those for whom Jesus died will desire to believe" Why do you hold on to that view when the bible says God wants all to come to Him for salvation. 1Ti 2:3-4 and this is possible as Christ Jesus was the ransom for all 1Ti 2:5-6. The scriptures are clear the ransom has been paid for all mankind not just a select few. What you fail to understand is that just because the ransom is paid does not mean that everyone will accept the offer of salvation.

You like to use Rom 9 as if it is a cudgel that will knock out any and all argument. It will come as a surprise to you but I have no problem with Rom 9-11. What I have a problem with is the misuse by same to put forward a bad theology.
Your misguided theology has made God the one that choose who will be saved or lost and this was done before creation. Paul is saying that those that reject faith in the son of God are condemned by that rejection and thus have no excuse. Paul has told the Jews that they had no excuse as they had the Law & Prophets. They should have known who Christ Jesus was and yet they rejected Him.

I find it amazing that you will hold to a man made theology and not trust in what the bible text tells you and you do not appreciate when someone is pointing out the error of your thinking.

 

[AustinC]

Austin you keep saying the same thing "Only those for whom Jesus died will desire to believe" Why do you hold on to that view when the bible says God wants all to come to Him for salvation. 1Ti 2:3-4 and this is possible as Christ Jesus was the ransom for all 1Ti 2:5-6. The scriptures are clear the ransom has been paid for all mankind not just a select few. What you fail to understand is that just because the ransom is paid does not mean that everyone will accept the offer of salvation.

You like to use Rom 9 as if it is a cudgel that will knock out any and all argument. It will come as a surprise to you but I have no problem with Rom 9-11. What I have a problem with is the misuse by same to put forward a bad theology.
Your misguided theology has made God the one that choose who will be saved or lost and this was done before creation. Paul is saying that those that reject faith in the son of God are condemned by that rejection and thus have no excuse. Paul has told the Jews that they had no excuse as they had the Law & Prophets. They should have known who Christ Jesus was and yet they rejected Him.

I find it amazing that you will hold to a man made theology and not trust in what the bible text tells you and you do not appreciate when someone is pointing out the error of your thinking.

Silverhair, what you teach is not what God teaches. Therefore, it is man-made, not God made.
The observation of scripture is clear. Jesus died for all whom the Father has given him.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The OP clearly shows that Calvinists like Owen, are more interested in promoting their theological nonsense, that has nothing to do with what the Holy Bible says!

Jesus Christ died for ALL the sins of the entire human race. It does NOT say in the Bible anywhere, that, because of this, peoples sins are automatically forgiven. Sinners must REPENT of their sins, so that they can be forgiven.

In John 3:18, 36, etc, it is very clear to those who are not impaired by their "theology", that because sinners CHOOSE to NOT BELIEVE, that they are damned to eternal punishment. As we can also see from Paul's encounter with some Jews in Acts 13, where they REJECTED the Gospel, and CONSIDERED THEMSELVES not worty of eternal life (v46); that they are condemned. Note, God did not so consider these who REJECTED the Gospel for their salvation, it was their own doing!

Jesus, when talking with the Jews who wanted to murder Him, in John chapter 5, tells them, "You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and these are they which testify about me. Yet you will not come to me, that you may have life" (39-40). Again these Jews were UNWILLING to go to Jesus, for ETERNAL LIFE. Showing that it was their CHOICE, and that it is not God, as reformed theology falsely teaches, Who has REJECTED them!

Reformed/Calvinistic "theology" has done MUCH DAMAGE to the Body of Jesus Christ, which their unbiblical nonsense especailly on Salvation!

 

[AustinC]

The OP clearly shows that Calvinists like Owen, are more interested in promoting their theological nonsense, that has nothing to do with what the Holy Bible says!

Jesus Christ died for ALL the sins of the entire human race. It does NOT say in the Bible anywhere, that, because of this, peoples sins are automatically forgiven. Sinners must REPENT of their sins, so that they can be forgiven.

In John 3:18, 36, etc, it is very clear to those who are not impaired by their "theology", that because sinners CHOOSE to NOT BELIEVE, that they are damned to eternal punishment. As we can also see from Paul's encounter with some Jews in Acts 13, where they REJECTED the Gospel, and CONSIDERED THEMSELVES not worty of eternal life (v46); that they are condemned. Note, God did not so consider these who REJECTED the Gospel for their salvation, it was their own doing!

Jesus, when talking with the Jews who wanted to murder Him, in John chapter 5, tells them, "You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and these are they which testify about me. Yet you will not come to me, that you may have life" (39-40). Again these Jews were UNWILLING to go to Jesus, for ETERNAL LIFE. Showing that it was their CHOICE, and that it is not God, as reformed theology falsely teaches, Who has REJECTED them!

Reformed/Calvinistic "theology" has done MUCH DAMAGE to the Body of Jesus Christ, which their unbiblical nonsense especailly on Salvation!

Your anti-grace theology is well known here at the BB. Are there more laws and legal requirements we must do before God can save anyone? Please provide the legal requirements of your policy guide.

All humanity, including you...and me is unwilling to go to Jesus. The Bible tells us that His sheep will hear His voice. Always and anon, you make salvation all about you and your work.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Your anti-grace theology is well known here at the BB. Are there more laws and legal requirements we must do before God can save anyone? Please provide the legal requirements of your policy guide.

All humanity, including you...and me is unwilling to go to Jesus. The Bible tells us that His sheep will hear His voice. Always and anon, you make salvation all about you and your work.

 

[SavedByGrace]

you make salvation all about you and your work

WHERE is your evidence for this complete RUBBISH!

 

[Brightfame52]

So what you are saying is that only those that Christ Jesus came to save will be able to believe in Him as they are the only ones enabled to do so. So all those that are not saved really did not have the chance to believe as they, according to your view, we never enabled to do so. Does that really sound like something that the God of the bible would do. remember He say that He desires all to come to a saving knowledge. 1Ti 2:3-4
If you think through the scripture that you have quoted "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." You have Christ Jesus saying you can't believe because I have not given you the ability to do so.




Now you seem to be promoting universalism. Since Christ Jesus' atonement was for all mankind sins then by your words you have everyone saved.

You still dont get it, even though i have taken time to explain.

 

[AustinC]

WHERE is your evidence for this complete RUBBISH!

In your OP thread "Is Saving Faith a Gift" you wrote"

Faith is “to Believe”. A sinner is saved by both REPENTING and BELIEVING

Note: In your theology a sinner is not saved by grace alone. In your theology a sinner is saved by these legal actions, that being repentance and man made will in believing.
In your theology the entire weight is on human will and human action.

There is the evidence. Please own it.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You still dont get it, even though i have taken time to explain.

Neither do you get it!

 

[Brightfame52]

Neither do you get it!

Same to you obviously !

 

[Silverhair]

Silverhair, what you teach is not what God teaches. Therefore, it is man-made, not God made.
The observation of scripture is clear. Jesus died for all whom the Father has given him.

Austin you have held to that view even though the scriptures show it is wrong. Since I hold to what scripture teaches and you hold to what Calvinism teaches who do you think holds to a man made theology. Hint It's not me.

 

[Silverhair]

You still dont get it, even though i have taken time to explain.

Then it appears that you are not good at explaining things. When you want to put forward something that is not in the bible you may be able to convince some people but since I trust what the scriptures say I am not one of them.

 

[AustinC]

Austin you have held to that view even though the scriptures show it is wrong. Since I hold to what scripture teaches and you hold to what Calvinism teaches who do you think holds to a man made theology. Hint It's not me.

Scripture supports Reformed understanding. It does not support your salvation by human works theology.

 

[Brightfame52]

Why them Christ died for cant die in unbelief !2

That those Adam represented were made sinners by his disobedience Rom 5:19 a

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

They had to be manifested as sinners, So likewise, those whom Christ represented and by His Obedience to the Law, keeping it in Faith, they are made believers, to manifest as believers.

You see, to deny this is tantamount to saying that Christ did not keep the Law for them ! And to say that is to say He didn't die for them. In essence Faith in Christ is an manifestation that Christ did in ones behalf and stead, obeyed Gods Law for them !

Because His Faith was their Faith, they receive in the New Birth the Faith of the Son of God, Pauls meaning here Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In other words, the Faith of the Son of God believers live by is the direct result and effect of Christ Loving them, and giving Himself for them. His Faith was theirs, and so its communicated to them by measure in the New Birth. Rom 12:3

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Faith is the Gift from the Son of God, and its given to each of His Body members He lived and died for as representative ! So in conclusion, if one lives and dies in unbelief, the answer is simple, he or she was not of the Sheep Christ Lived and died for Jn 10:26 !

 

[Silverhair]

Scripture supports Reformed understanding. It does not support your salvation by human works theology.

If that were a true statement then I would be a Calvinist but since it does not then I am not one.

 

[1689Dave]

“But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.” John 12:37–41 (KJV 1900)