Did Eve Lie To The Serpent?

[menageriekeeper]

:tonofbricks:

HEY, who through that first brick?!! MK?

Yep! And while it was flying through the air I got out my iron skillet! You better watch yourself mister! :laugh:

So, you are saying Adam and EVe could have lied all they wanted, one could have killed the other, committed ungodly before she was deceived and it would not have been sin?

Yes, this is exactly what I am saying and it doesn't matter if you buy it or not as the scripture is clear. Remember what LeBuick quoted:

Ro 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The only Law Adam and Eve had up to this point was: Don't eat the fruit! That's it. Thats why they were running around nekkid in front of each other. They had absolutely no perception of right or wrong other than they weren't supposed to eat the fruit.

 

[canadyjd]

So, you are saying Adam and EVe could have lied all they wanted, one could have killed the other, committed ungodly before she was deceived and it would not have been sin?

No, that is not what I am saying. I am repeating scripture which says sin entered by the transgression of Adam. Scripture says Eve was deceived. I don't believe the evil you are speaking of was present in the world prior to the fall. We certainly have no record that any such things were taking place.

Instead of speculating on where the words "neither shall ye touch it" came from, why not answer my question...where did the word "surely" go? If Eve didn't repeat the command exactly, and she didn't, why not?

So Eve didn't sin in her disobedience and apparent lying since you say God didn't say 'neither shall ye touch it', but Adam did in his disobedience?

I can only repeat scripture, which says Eve was deceived, and Adam transgressed/sinned. Scripture does not say that God said "neither shall ye touch it". It is your speculation that God told Eve that. It is just as reasonable to believe that Adam told Eve not to touch the fruit, and Eve mistakenly attributed the command as part of God's command.

Wouldn't that make God a respector of persons?

It is clear that scripture distinguishes the role of Eve and the role of Adam in the fall, attributing the sin to Adam and saying that Eve was deceived.

I do not see why that is so hard to understand. Do you believe what scripture says or not?

peace to youraying:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Apparently I believe Scripture more than others

 

[Dale-c]

Apparently I believe Scripture more than others

You have been telling us that for a while.
But do you believe the parts about election? How about wine? YOu seem to skip over those parts.

 

[canadyjd]

Apparently I believe Scripture more than others

I am from Missouri. I can't take your word for it, you have to show me.

What I have seen from you is an aversion to answering questions directly.

peace to youraying:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

You have been telling us that for a while.
But do you believe the parts about election? How about wine? YOu seem to skip over those parts.

Scripture states that there are those who are elected and that there are those who are saved. I have not denied the Scriptures concerning election. I do, however, deny the Calvinist's interpretation of election.

Wine? You already know my stance on it. I stand with the Word of God. Alcohol is forbidden in the life of a Christian. It bites like a serpent and stings like an adder. Many who call themselves Christian are deceived into drinking that which God forbids.

Your accusation of my 'skipping over 'these parts' is far from the truth, Dale. Of course, you have to be consistant in your false accusations of the Brethren, so carry on. Your attacks on my believing the truth written in God's Word only strengthens my stand with Christ.

 

[Amy.G]

God's word makes no mention of why Eve said what she did. All we are told is that she was deceived, but Adam sinned.

Since that's all we're told, we should leave at that and just accept it the way it is written. Anything else is just speculation and opinion.

 

[readmore]

a primitive root; to cheat, i.e. be untrue (usually in words):--fail, deal falsely, lie.

a falsehood:--lie, lying.

Neither definition are translated as saying'telling a untruth with intention to deceive. They just say a falsehood, be untrue, deal falsely, lie.A lie is a lie whether joking around or not.

Actually, both definitions do, for both the Hebrew word and the Greek word. I've highlighted them. Everyone understands that a lie is not a mistake--it is an intent to deceive.

Great example: I don't discipline my children for being wrong, however, I do if I catch them in a lie. Are you honestly telling me that if you quiz your kid on the capital of Texas, and he says "Houston", you'll bring out the rod of correction? Why not, it's a sin, eh?

 

[David Lamb]

The first time the word 'lie' is used in the Old Testament in the context of telling a lie is in Leviticus 19:11.

The Hebrew is translated 'shaqar' and it means

a primitive root; to cheat, i.e. be untrue (usually in words):--fail, deal falsely, lie.

The first time it is used in the New Testament is in John 8:44.

The Greek is translated 'pseudos' and it means

a falsehood:--lie, lying.

Neither definition are translated as saying'telling a untruth with intention to deceive. They just say a falsehood, be untrue, deal falsely, lie.A lie is a lie whether joking around or not.

I hesitate to write anything that could be construed as condoning lying, but I am not sure that being mistaken is the same as lying. Teachers ask their pupils many questions every day in school. I mean questions asked as part of a lesson, not "disciplinary" questions like, "Who made that noise?" Suppose the chemistry teacher asks, "How many atoms of hydrogen are there in a molecule of water?" and a pupil answers, "Three". Is that child attempting to deceive, to cheat, or "deal falsely with" the teacher? What if a maths teacher sets some geometry homework (I think you would call that an "assignment" in America) which includes a question involving the use of Pythagoras' Theorem to discover the length of the hypontenuse of a right-angled triangle. The other two sides are 4 inches and 6 inches, but the pupil makes a mistake in working out the square root of 52, so gives the answer 8.2 inches, instead of 7.2 inches. He might be guilty of carelessness, but is he really lying?

 

[HankD]

I agree with SFIC on this one.

In fact when I first realized (several years ago) that Eve had apparently added to God's Words in this passage, I came to the same conclusion.

God said it, it just wasn't recorded in the first account.

Or He may may have said it at some other time while walking with them in the cool of the evening.

HankD

 

[Tom Bryant]

I've decided to be quiet about that which the Bible is quiet about. Too much clear teaching to spend time and effort talking about than to waste time in figuring out if and when God said something that we can never know, this side of heaven.

 

[Askjo]

Genesis 3:2-3 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

I had always heard that Eve added to God's Word when she said 'neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." And I had always believed that she did because of other's teaching so.

But tonight, as Linda and I were studying the Word, a thought came to me.

Did Eve really lie to the serpent in that statement?

I wonder if God may have instructed her not to touch it and it just was not recorded by Moses?

The reason I ask this is because of a verse found in Romans 5

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Was it disobedience that brought sin into the world? or was it a lie?

If a lie, then Eve lied before being deceived.

Theologians, have at it.

The point is Adam’s responsibility because of God’s command toward him, not Eve. If Eve added God’s Words, did Eve’s mind affect her statement? Was her memory not perfect during she was sinless? It is possible that she did not intend to lie.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Askjo,

It is possible that she did not lie intentionally. But intentional or not, it was still a lie.

What sin was God speaking about to Cain when He said 'sin lieth at the door'? If the law had not been given, how could Cain have been guilty of sin?

Thou shalt not kill had not even been given to man yet.... just as thou shalt not lie. And yet, Cain was guilty of the sin of murdering Abel.

Had God not told Eve 'neither shall ye touch it, she would have been guilty of lying by saying He did say it.

 

[Dale-c]

Had God not told Eve 'neither shall ye touch it, she would have been guilty of lying by saying He did say it.

The only clear answer you can get is to go back and look at what God said.
He did NOT say "neither shall you touch it"
We have a record of what was said.

Was eve lying? I don't know.
The Bible is silent.

And by the way, this is nothing different than those who add to the Bible today by saying things like "don't even touch the wine" or don't even go to a movie lest you see a bad one" or...well you get the point.

It is like padding God's commands.

If God does not tell us, then it must not be important.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Do you really think everything that God talked to them about was recorded, Dale?

Scripture does not say what they talked about in the cool of the evening, nor how often they talked.

It could be that God told Eve not to touch it and it was not recorded. If He did not say it, then Eve bore false witness... she lied.

btw, Scripture does say not to have anything to do with alcoholic wine. Many want to deny it, but that does not mean the command was not given.

Why do you always want to veer off into the subject of wine, Dale?

 

[webdog]

Why do you always want to veer off into the subject of wine, Dale?

...maybe because reading your posts makes us want to drink?

 

[Dale-c]

...maybe because reading your posts makes us want to drink?

Wow, it does! But that is not why.

 

[Rubato 1]

But if Eve lied to the serpent, sin would already have to have been in the world. And we know she ate of the fruit first and then gave to Adam.

Are you saying before Adam ate of the fruit lying was not a sin?

Does the Bible say that lying is always a sin?

 

[HankD]

Does the Bible say that lying is always a sin?

1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

As to Those things not recorded in the Scripture...

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

HankD​

 

[Rubato 1]

1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

HankD​

I believe 'the truth' reffered to here is the gospel, the word of God, and/or the 'Christian Life'. My basis for saying this and for asking the original question is that Rahab lied and was blessed of God for it. There are others who lied and recieved no condemnation for it.
In context of 1 John 2, the 'truth' is a true life, true salvation, true works, which are true to your position as a saint, etc.