Your paraphrasing of scripture is not going to work. Post the exact scriptures that say God killed Christ and then explain them.
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Did God Kill His own Son Upon The Cross?
- Thread starter JesusFan
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Your paraphrasing of scripture is not going to work. Post the exact scriptures that say God killed Christ and then explain them.
Until you post scripture (not your paraphrase) to prove your assertion that God killed Jesus, there is nothing to discuss or debate.
I'll do that but I want to ask you this:
Do you still believe that NNE killed Jesus?
Do you think I'm stupid? Do you think I don't know that the Jews hated Jesus and turned Him over to Pilot? Do you think I don't know that the Romans beat Him and hammered nails into His hands and feet? But God did not kill Him! And that is what you have been ranting about all through this thread without a shred of evidence from scripture to prove it!
Scripture says that Jesus laid down His own life. No one took it from Him. If you want to disagree, you have to disagree with God, not me.
When someone is "killed", they have no choice in it. But Jesus (who is God BTW) chose to give His life for sinners. That is why you can't lay the blame at God's feet. God used sinful men to carry out His plan, but it was HIS choice to die.
That is all I have to say until you supply your supposed proof.
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
nakah h5221
AV — smite 348, slay 92, kill 20, beat 9, slaughter 5, stricken 3, given 3, wounded 3, strike 2, stripes 2, misc 13
The Lamb slain from.
nakah h5221
AV — smite 348, slay 92, kill 20, beat 9, slaughter 5, stricken 3, given 3, wounded 3, strike 2, stripes 2, misc 13
The Lamb slain from.
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You deflected marvelously.
Do you believe that ANYBODY killed Jesus?
That's a simple question.
I know you believe he was turned over to Pilate, crucified by the Romans, etc, etc, etc...
But it seemed to me that your argument earlier was that God could not have killed Jesus because NOBODY killed him since he laid down his OWN life and NOBODY took it from him.
So I am just trying to be clear on what your argument is.
Do you believe that ANYBODY actually KILLED Jesus or not?
Because if your argument is that NOBODY killed Jesus- not God, not man, not ANYBODY because he laid his own life down and nobody took it from him- then your argument is dead in the water.
As such it will make my moving forward easier.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Your argument is with the words of Christ Himself.
And you have yet to post scripture to prove your point. You are the deflector.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
Who was it that came to kill steal and destroy?
When will you guys get figurative and literal language right? This does NOT say God killed Jesus!
I dont mean we blame God, in a negative way because the position we agree on upholds the fact that the Jews and Romans were responsible for their actions. While they take the heat we can indirectly blame God if we would do so foolishly. Blaming in the sense of why did you let this happen? Or why allow the Jews to be so blind? Why not reveal Jesus to them so they wouldnt kill Him. Of course it was Gods will to send Him to the cross and so forth.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
So saying that God killed Jesus is kind of a misleading statement? It's really that He was given as sacrifice to death? Maybe this is just simple wording that creates the oppositions.
Right. Absolutely.
It works the same way it did with Job.
Satan afflicted Job.
Yet Job said rightly "The LORD gave and the LORD hath taken away."
The LORD did it.
Satan did it.
The same action brought about by multiple persons with multiple motives.
God's motive being pure and holy and just and good.
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figurative or literal?
The Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.
This figurative concept was before man was created therefore before the sin of man.
The same God that knew from the foundation of the world the Lamb would be slain also from the foundation of the world or before promised the hope of eternal life.
Do you think this promise of the hope of eternal life was made for this innocent, sinless, guiltless Lamb of which the first man Adam was a type or for the rest of of Adam's degenerate children?
Posting that verse is pointless. I know the verse by heart. So do most of us. So what?
What do you understand that verse to teach as it pertains to the question at hand.
Do you understand it to mean that NOBODY KILLED CHRIST?
A simple yes or no will help us make some progress.
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That's not what Christ was saying at all. He was saying that if it weren't the Father's will that Christ be arrested, He could pray and be delivered.
Christ allowed himself to be killed.
He went willingly.
He allowed the authorities to take him and crucify. He allowed them.
Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. (John 19:10-11)
Exactly. Thank you.
An age old conundrum of the scriptures, .....whodunnit?
And again the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Judah. 2 Sam 24:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. 1 Chr 21:1
14 And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3
Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand. Isa 53:10
Who moved David? Who bruised Christ? Who afflicted Job? etc., etc., etc..
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