Did Jesus die for the sin of unbelief?

[Barry Johnson]

The instructions from Peter result in receiving the Holy Spirit. Are you really of the opinion that unsaved people repent, are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit? Paul goes on to later explain in great detail that Jew or Gentile, all are saved by faith ... just like Abraham was.

You are making a distinction without a difference.

After Baptism ? And you wonder why we have a whole load of denominations who believe in ' baptism in the Holy Ghost ( second experience) and initial evidence, who base this off Acts 2 .38 . Things different are not the same .

 

[1689Dave]

My statement stands unopposed. TY

What is your statement?

 

[MB]

Christ alone saves ... no repentance, no faith, no belief, no perseverance. I do not think that you actually believe that or you would be a Particular Baptist (who believe that all of those other things come from God, too.) You likely believe that YOUR belief is importance and YOUR decision to repent is important and YOUR faith saves you if YOU persevere ... which is not "Christ alone".

persevering has nothing to do with Salvation because that would be works for Salvation. I'm a Christian because Christ justified me by my faith. Jesus saved me.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

please notice that we believe that we might be justified. Our faith is tested. If our faith isn't what it should be what then?
MB

 

[atpollard]

persevering has nothing to do with Salvation because that would be works for Salvation. I'm a Christian because Christ justified me by my faith. Jesus saved me.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

please notice that we believe that we might be justified. Our faith is tested. If our faith isn't what it should be what then?
MB

Do you see any difference?
Whose faith?

(For the record, I am not telling you that your belief is wrong ... only GOD knows PERFECT TRUTH ... I am merely pointing out that we Particular Baptists are not just "making this stuff up". We really do see it taught in scripture, so we have no choice but to hold fast to our beliefs.)

 

[atpollard]

After Baptism ?

That is not a sentence and fails to express a complete thought, so I have no idea what you are attempting to say. Try writing as if I cannot read your mind.

And you wonder why we have a whole load of denominations who believe in ' baptism in the Holy Ghost ( second experience) and initial evidence, who base this off Acts 2 .38 .

No, I don't wonder that at all.

***

And this year's "Captain Obvious" award goes to ...

Things different are not the same .

Your post was supposed to answer the question:
Are you really of the opinion that unsaved people repent, are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit?
Which was based on the statement by Peter "“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." and your claim ...

The hearers ask " what must we do " not " what must we do to be saved " .

If you answered the question, I did not understand your answer.

I believe that the Jews that heard and obeyed Peter's instructions were saved and received the Holy Spirit as a deposit GUARANTEEING THEIR INHERITANCE, just as Gentiles did in the following chapters of Acts. You have thus far presented not one iota of evidence to refute my belief. I stand with Paul's conclusion that we - Jews and Greeks - are saved by faith and that there is no difference. As far back as Abraham, faith was credited as righteousness and all of God's Children are Children of Faith ... like Abraham.

 

[Barry Johnson]

That is not a sentence and fails to express a complete thought, so I have no idea what you are attempting to say. Try writing as if I cannot read your mind.
I haven't said faith is not the basis for everyone's salvation old or new T ? I've said Peter is adressing Israel and its about what they must ' do '. its not what people 'do 'to be saved in the church age .

No, I don't wonder that at all.

***

And this year's "Captain Obvious" award goes to ...


Your post was supposed to answer the question:
Are you really of the opinion that unsaved people repent, are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit?
Which was based on the statement by Peter "“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." and your claim ...

If you answered the question, I did not understand your answer.

I believe that the Jews that heard and obeyed Peter's instructions were saved and received the Holy Spirit as a deposit GUARANTEEING THEIR INHERITANCE, just as Gentiles did in the following chapters of Acts. You have thus far presented not one iota of evidence to refute my belief. I stand with Paul's conclusion that we - Jews and Greeks - are saved by faith and that there is no difference. As far back as Abraham, faith was credited as righteousness and all of God's Children are Children of Faith ... like Abraham.

Faith yes . But what if they didn't do the sacrifices , observe the law ect ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

That is not a sentence and fails to express a complete thought, so I have no idea what you are attempting to say. Try writing as if I cannot read your mind. Repent , believe, baptise , recieve ( Acts 2.38 ) is that necessary today ? some pentacostal churches are built on that verse .


No, I don't wonder that at all.

***

And this year's "Captain Obvious" award goes to ...


Your post was supposed to answer the question:
Are you really of the opinion that unsaved people repent, are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit?
Which was based on the statement by Peter "“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." and your claim ...

If you answered the question, I did not understand your answer.

I believe that the Jews that heard and obeyed Peter's instructions were saved and received the Holy Spirit as a deposit GUARANTEEING THEIR INHERITANCE, just as Gentiles did in the following chapters of Acts. You have thus far presented not one iota of evidence to refute my belief. I stand with Paul's conclusion that we - Jews and Greeks - are saved by faith and that there is no difference. As far back as Abraham, faith was credited as righteousness and all of God's Children are Children of Faith ... like Abraham.

 

[Barry Johnson]

That is not a sentence and fails to express a complete thought, so I have no idea what you are attempting to say. Try writing as if I cannot read your mind.


No, I don't wonder that at all.

***

And this year's "Captain Obvious" award goes to ...


Your post was supposed to answer the question:
Are you really of the opinion that unsaved people repent, are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit?
Which was based on the statement by Peter "“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." and your claim ...

If you answered the question, I did not understand your answer.

I believe that the Jews that heard and obeyed Peter's instructions were saved and received the Holy Spirit as a deposit GUARANTEEING THEIR INHERITANCE, just as Gentiles did in the following chapters of Acts. You have thus far presented not one iota of evidence to refute my belief. I stand with Paul's conclusion that we - Jews and Greeks - are saved by faith and that there is no difference. As far back as Abraham, faith was credited as righteousness and all of God's Children are Children of Faith ... like Abraham.

I believe Noah heard God followed his instructions, moved with Godly fear built an Ark and was saved , whats your point ?

 

[AustinC]

persevering has nothing to do with Salvation because that would be works for Salvation. I'm a Christian because Christ justified me by my faith. Jesus saved me.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

please notice that we believe that we might be justified. Our faith is tested. If our faith isn't what it should be what then?
MB

You miss the mark.
Why? Because you imagine faith is generated by your fleshly will.
Let me say that anyone attempting to be justified by their own fleshly willpower, that they call "faith", will die in their trespasses and sins. They will have severely missed the mark.

 

[MB]

Do you see any difference?
Whose faith?

The Faith of Jesus Christ is my faith in Him so no I do not see any difference

(For the record, I am not telling you that your belief is wrong ... only GOD knows PERFECT TRUTH ... I am merely pointing out that we Particular Baptists are not just "making this stuff up". We really do see it taught in scripture, so we have no choice but to hold fast to our beliefs.)

Holding fast to your faith seems rather complicated don't you think? When I hear people say they are holding on to there faith I see it as if they are tied to a pole in a mighty wind hanging on for dear life. For my self my belief is stronger now than when I first believed. This is with out fear of loosing my faith. Though I listen to preaching all the time it seems my listening makes my faith stronger I do not work at it to keep it. Its part of me to trust that all things work together for my well being because of my Salvation. I depend on My Lord for everything. I may not be rich yet the Lord provides me with every thing I need.
I've had others try and talk me in to there beliefs and I let them have there say then I tell them the truth When I first believed I was sealed by the Holy Spirit this made my belief and my Salvation permanent. It Cannot be undone. I cannot loose it. I know for sure I have an ever lasting home with my Lord and Savior.
MB

 

[Barry Johnson]

You miss the mark.
Why? Because you imagine faith is generated by your fleshly will.
Let me say that anyone attempting to be justified by their own fleshly willpower, that they call "faith", will die in their trespasses and sins. They will have severely missed the mark.

Ok there's no bible in what you just said for me to respond to ?

 

[MB]

You miss the mark.
Why? Because you imagine faith is generated by your fleshly will.
Let me say that anyone attempting to be justified by their own fleshly willpower, that they call "faith", will die in their trespasses and sins. They will have severely missed the mark.

Austin This makes me sad for you simply because you have to work so hard to prove your Salvation. I'm not saying you aren't saved I'm saying you have been deceived either by your own inner self or by those you have allowed to deceive you None of your accusations have convinced me that you know what you are talking about. Faith in something is something we accept and trust is true. It really is easy try it you may like it.
MB

 

[atpollard]

I believe Noah heard God followed his instructions, moved with Godly fear built an Ark and was saved , whats your point ?

My point is this ...

When your responses have no connection whatsoever with my post that you are responding to, it makes it very hard to have a conversation. For example, you state "I believe Noah heard God followed his instructions, moved with Godly fear built an Ark and was saved", yet I have said nothing at all about Noah, nor do I particularly disagree with that statement.

However, my only possible response is ... "Huh????" ... since we were talking about the fact that you claimed that the Jews in Acts 2:38 were not asking to be saved and I argued that anyone that receives the Holy Spirit IS SAVED.

I have no idea what that has to do with Noah being obedient. Paul and Timothy were obedient, too. Jonah and Jacob, only so, so. Even Noah and Abraham had their struggles. Daniel and Job are the "Rock Stars" of obedience. So what was YOUR point?

 

[AustinC]

Ok there's no bible in what you just said for me to respond to ?

Actually, it's all in Ephesians 2:1-10.
In vs 1, the Greek word for dead, means to miss the mark so badly that you die. Later when Paul tells us we are made alive, that Greek word means that God took you and caused you to hit the mark and even surpass the mark.
So, if you actually study this passage and the Greek words used, you will see that the Bible very clearly supports what I stated.
Thanks

 

[atpollard]

The Faith of Jesus Christ is my faith in Him so no I do not see any difference

I believe that the "Faith of Jesus Christ" is "HIS faith" planted and living inside of me.

• I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. [Eze 36:26 NIV]
• But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. [Eph 2:4-5 NIV]
• for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. [Phl 2:13 NIV]

 

[Barry Johnson]

My point is this ...

When your responses have no connection whatsoever with my post that you are responding to, it makes it very hard to have a conversation. For example, you state "I believe Noah heard God followed his instructions, moved with Godly fear built an Ark and was saved", yet I have said nothing at all about Noah, nor do I particularly disagree with that statement.

However, my only possible response is ... "Huh????" ... since we were talking about the fact that you claimed that the Jews in Acts 2:38 were not asking to be saved and I argued that anyone that receives the Holy Spirit IS SAVED.

I have no idea what that has to do with Noah being obedient. Paul and Timothy were obedient, too. Jonah and Jacob, only so, so. Even Noah and Abraham had their struggles. Daniel and Job are the "Rock Stars" of obedience. So what was YOUR point?

Paul reveals how we are saved in the church age . The definition , the application and the order . Rom 1.16 / 1 cor 15 .1-4 and Rom 10 ,9and 10 .
The order is not Repent , be baptised FOR the REMISSION of sins AND then' and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.'
That is not what we tell people how to be saved today. ( inspite what some charismatic s and pentacostal churches want to tell us )
And secondly yes ,a person can believe the Gospel to be saved which is how we are saved .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Actually, it's all in Ephesians 2:1-10.
In vs 1, the Greek word for dead, means to miss the mark so badly that you die. Later when Paul tells us we are made alive, that Greek word means that God took you and caused you to hit the mark and even surpass the mark.
So, if you actually study this passage and the Greek words used, you will see that the Bible very clearly supports what I stated.
Thanks

It doesn't imply that God caused you to believe . I'm ok with God causing a person to be made alive as that's what it says .

 

[tyndale1946]

Actually, it's all in Ephesians 2:1-10.
In vs 1, the Greek word for dead, means to miss the mark so badly that you die. Later when Paul tells us we are made alive, that Greek word means that God took you and caused you to hit the mark and even surpass the mark.
So, if you actually study this passage and the Greek words used, you will see that the Bible very clearly supports what I stated.
Thanks

I feel you are in error... To miss the mark implies you were trying to hit it... Dead is as dead as the one in the cemetery as we speak... Quicken mean to make alive and you do not quicken yourself, can't, you are DEAD!... God does what you do not have the ability nor desire to do... Until he changes you within you are as dead as those in the graveyard... Then and only then do you press toward any mark, but the only one who ever reached it was Jesus Christ... Until God awakens the dead to the new birth and all are not called, they are as dead as John Brown's body that lies a mouldering in the grave... Brother Glen

 

[Sai]

What is your statement?

No saved Gentiles

 

[1689Dave]

No saved Gentiles

Saved Gentiles are now Israel.