Did Jesus Go to Hell after He Died?

[Jope]

The Bible only mentions one place for Paradise.

In 2 Cor 12 it is the Third Heaven.

In Rev 2 and Rev 22 it is the place where the Throne of God is.

That is your only "Bible choice".

This is one of those cases where there are only 3 texts that talk about it in all of scripture and only two of them state where it is.

It just does not get any easier than that - when it comes to Bible topics.

And yet - man-made-tradition in popular pulpits picks "some place else".

That should be a red flag.

If you believe that Jesus only told the truth the day that He was on the cross, that should be a red flag.

Jesus did not claim to go to Paradise the day He died.

So you do believe that Jesus only told the truth that day that He was on the cross, and that He lied other days?

And the Bible ONLY locates Paradise in the third heaven (2Cor 12) - at the place where the Throne of God is (Rev 2, Rev 22).

Yet you fail to give a cogent answer for my point. How many times have I asked this same question and you won't answer it?

Should I conclude that you believe that Jesus lied?

He insists in John 20 that He had NOT been to the Father in all that time.

He was right as it turns out.

in Christ,

Bob

This doesn't disprove my point. Where in scripture does it state that a requisite for Paradise is that the Father's dwelling place has to be situated there?


PS, if you do another sophist post digressing into unrelated topics and not addressing my points, don't expect me to continue dialogue with you on this thread. Would you continue speaking to someone who dodges responding to your questions and repeats his already refuted points?

 

[Jope]

The spaghetti monster does not exist,

Now c'mon, we both know that's not true. :laugh:

 

[Jope]

The spaghetti monster does not exist, yet you believe ( as I do ) God exists. So, to claim elephants can't fly and God does exists does not seem very rational to me. We should keep the same open mind we do with God, on all things.

This is better, " As far as we know thus far, Elephants are unable to fly, however, that is not to say that there are no flying elephants but the evidence thus far shows elephants do not fly. :thumbs:

The point is, that Bob is bringing up unrelated things to answer my question.

The fact that the cross was the time for the power of darkness doesn't disprove that Jesus went to paradise when He died.

 

[TisMe]

Now c'mon, we both know that's not true. :laugh:

There are many fictions since time began that are now truth's, ( Proved Scientifically) However, we laid down our God given rational mind and re placed it with faith, ( God ).

At this point, we should conclude that all possibilities are possible or NOT believe in God. Correct? If not, why?

 

[Jope]

There are many fictions since time began that are now truth's, ( Proved Scientifically) However, we laid down our God given rational mind and re placed it with faith, ( God ).

At this point, we should conclude that all possibilities are possible or NOT believe in God. Correct? If not, why?

Read what I responded to. I was joking that the spaghetti monster was real.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Hey Gerhard. While I agree with you that Paradise and hell aren't the same place, I disagree with you on your point that there won't be a thousand years between Rev. 19:20 and Rev. 20:10, and that this belief only came about very recently.

Well, then there obviously isn't anything we agree on.

That does not concern me at all.

What concerns me, is that Jonas—as type of Christ—IN HELL AND FROM HELL, CRIED UNTO THE LORD THESE WORDS:

"When My soul fainted within Me I remembered the LORD: and My prayer came in unto Thee into Thine Holy TEMPLE."

God's holy temple was in the belly of the fish as God's Holy Temple, Jesus, in his soul was in the heart of the earth in his ALIVE ANGUISH "UNTO DEATH".

"They that observe lying vanities..." as that Christ went to hell AFTER He died, "...forsake their own mercy." Jonas 2:8.

We found COMPLETE MERCY in Jesus Christ IN HELL IN HIS PASSOVER-SUFFERING OBEYING God's Commandments "concerning the Christ how that He OUGHT TO HAVE SUFFERED", BEFORE HE DIED, or we forsake it.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Iranaeus said that after the antichrist is cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20), the kingdom will be inaugurated.

But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” (Mat_8:11)

​

Iranaeus is talking nonsense. I don't believe him nor ought I believe him; there are Jesus' own words He "in hell remembered".
​

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Iranaeus also placed the first resurrection of Revelation 20 with the inauguration of the Kingdom:

That the whole creation shall, according to God’s will, obtain a vast increase, that it may bring forth and sustain fruits such [as we have mentioned], Isaiah declares: “And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every prominent hill, water running everywhere in that day, when many shall perish, when walls shall fall. And the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, seven times that of the day, when He shall heal the anguish of His people, and do away with the pain of His stroke.” (Isa_30:25, Isa_30:26) Now “the pain of the stroke” means that inflicted at the beginning upon disobedient man in Adam, that is, death; which [stroke] the Lord will heal when He raises us from the dead, and restores the inheritance of the fathers, as Isaiah again says: “And thou shall be confident in the Lord, and He will cause thee to pass over the whole earth, and feed thee with the inheritance of Jacob thy father.” (Isa_58:14)...John also says the very same in the Apocalypse: “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.” (Rev_20:6)

- Bold emphases mine,

Against Heresies, Book 5, Chap. XXXIV, 2.​

Iranaeus was 2nd-3rd century.

Here, Iranaeas mixes error and truth to the point both are unrecognisable.

The fact “Iranaeus was 2nd-3rd century” says more against him than for him, in my opinion. It was the age of apostasy unprecedented as well as would appear again ever.

Isaiah declares OF JESUS CHRIST TRIUMPHANT IN BOTH DEATH AND RESURRECTION:
“And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every prominent hill, water running everywhere in that day, when many shall perish, when walls shall fall. And the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, seven times that of the day, WHEN HE SHALL HEAL THE ANGUISH OF HIS PEOPLE AND DO AWAY WITH THE PAIN OF HIS STROKE.”

“I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about Me forever: YET HAST THOU BROUGHT UP MY LIFE FROM CORRUPTION…”

“Thou brought up My Life from corruption…”, “from the dead”…
…WHERE, HOW, and WHEN?

“Being delivered by the predeterminate Councel and Foreknowledge of God ye have taken Him and by wicked hands have crucified and slain Him; but God HAVING LOOSED THE PAINS OF DEATH BECAUSE IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE THAT HE SHOULD BE HOLDEN OF IT, hath raised Him up.”

God did not increase the pains of death; nor did God after that Christ had died, increase the pains of death.
But God for Jesus Christ “LOOSED the pains of death” in that He having been delivered by the predeterminate Councel and Foreknowledge of God…” and in that “…ye have taken Him and by wicked hands have crucified and slain Him”, suffered “the pains of death”—which “pains” his DEATH RELEASED Him from.

DYING DEATH, WHILE HE LIVED, Christ SUFFERED”THE PAINS OF DEATH”. Christ LIVED “the pains of death”; He lived it BEFORE He surrendered his life into his Father’s hands and gave his last breath. It was THEN that “God loosed the pains of death” for Jesus.

Hosea 6:1,2,
“The Lord will heal us … after two days He will revive us; in the third day He will raise us up and we shall live in his sight” in Jesus Christ “First Sheaf of firstfruits BEFORE THE LORD”.
“… as Isaiah again says: “And thou shall be confident in the Lord, and He will cause thee to pass over the whole earth, and feed thee with the inheritance of Jacob thy father.” (Isa_58:14)...John also says the very same in the Apocalypse: “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.”
THESE ARE THE REDEEMED; THESE ARE THE BORN-AGAIN—these are “us”, “IN HIM”.

Ephesians 1:18,
"That ye may know what is the hope of HIS, calling, and what the riches of the glory of HIS inheritance in the saints..."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The fact that the cross was the time for the power of darkness doesn't disprove that Jesus went to paradise when He died.

The fact that the cross was the time for the power of darkness proves the cross -- in fact that WHOLE DAY of ‘the cross’ in its God-given and therefore eschatological imperative whole and wholeness—FROM its "EVENING" UNTIL its "ninth hour" and end—PROVES that Jesus SPENT that “selfsame day” in VICTORY of ‘Paradise Regained’ according to the Scriptures, “IN HELL”.

 

[Jope]

Well, then there obviously isn't anything we agree on.

What made you change your mind so quick? You don't believe that paradise is a different place than hell now?

That does not concern me at all.

It concerns you to the point that you stated that premillennialism (or at least the thousand-year separation between Rev. 19:20 and Rev. 20:10) is a recently made doctrine. Be a man and own up to your words.

What concerns me, is that Jonas—as type of Christ—IN HELL AND FROM HELL, CRIED UNTO THE LORD THESE WORDS:

"When My soul fainted within Me I remembered the LORD: and My prayer came in unto Thee into Thine Holy TEMPLE."

God's holy temple was in the belly of the fish as God's Holy Temple, Jesus, in his soul was in the heart of the earth in his ALIVE ANGUISH "UNTO DEATH".

"They that observe lying vanities..." as that Christ went to hell AFTER He died, "...forsake their own mercy." Jonas 2:8.

We found COMPLETE MERCY in Jesus Christ IN HELL IN HIS PASSOVER-SUFFERING OBEYING God's Commandments "concerning the Christ how that He OUGHT TO HAVE SUFFERED", BEFORE HE DIED, or we forsake it.

Okaleedoke.

By the way, Jesus is God manifest in flesh, Lamech lived for 777 years and Ruth's mother-in-law's name was Naomi.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I have posted enough posts by now to know when not to post.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The Bible only mentions one place for Paradise.

In 2 Cor 12 it is the Third Heaven.

In Rev 2 and Rev 22 it is the place where the Throne of God is.

That is your only "Bible choice".

This is one of those cases where there are only 3 texts that talk about it in all of scripture and only two of them state where it is.

It just does not get any easier than that - when it comes to Bible topics.

And yet - man-made-tradition in popular pulpits picks "some place else".

That should be a red flag.



Jesus did not claim to go to Paradise the day He died. And the Bible ONLY locates Paradise in the third heaven (2Cor 12) - at the place where the Throne of God is (Rev 2, Rev 22).

He insists in John 20 that He had NOT been to the Father in all that time.

He was right as it turns out.

in Christ,

Bob

Re:
< Jesus did not claim to go to Paradise the day He died.>

Correct! Jesus did not go to paradise the day He died; He WAS in paradise the day He died. And He LEFT paradise the day and the moment that He died.

In fact Jesus gave the clearest possible definition of what and where and when Paradise was: “The TRUTH I tell you, TODAY WITH ME … IN paradise : and it was now exactly the sixth hour and DARKNESS came over all the LAND.”

Jesus swore this in answer to the prayer to Him of the also crucified thief to “remember me WHEN Thou comest INTO THY KINGDOM”, confirming what He before on that very “today” had told his disciples, that He is going into the “KINGDOM OF MY FATHER”!

Exactly then the thief on the cross by virtue of Jesus’ oath to “remember” him, “WITH” Him entered “into paradise”—the HELL in which Christ suffered his soul’s anguish “unto death” together with the physical ‘pain’ that the darkness of the “Plague (that) was upon Him”, caused Him.

Jesus KEPT WORD to the thief and He spoke the TRUTH for us as well. He lied not, which He would, were He to arrive in all comfort and glorified dignity ‘in paradise in the third heaven at the place where the Throne of God is’ more than 1814 years later, as the Seventh-day Adventists allege! Allege, making Christ a cruel conman instead of Faithful Witness and Saviour!

Revelation 2 confirms the same TRUTH Jesus had spoken to the thief on the cross.
“To him that overcometh…” HOW?
How else than “with Me”, “with” Jesus on the tree? Only in Christ the Overcomer “the Spirit saith unto the churches: He that overcoment shall not be hurt of the second death.”
Did Jesus tell the thief on the cross anything in conflict with what John assures the saints in Revelation 2?!
No! In fact The Faithful Witness witnesses through “the Spirit”, “The Tree of Life is in the midst of the Paradise of God”—just like in Luke where it says that Jesus went into the Kingdom of His Father—which Kingdom the thief mentioned was Jesus’ own Kingdom and Jesus confirmed was Paradise—“The Paradise of God” the Father and the Son here in John confirmed by the Spirit of God, ‘in full fellowship of the Trinity’. [Klaas Schilder’s words, my application.]

Confirmed by the Spirit of God, the place of the saints’ SUFFERING—of their suffering “with ME”, is, Jesus—with Jesus who says, “I know [“remember” in Luke] thy works and TRIBULATION and POVERTY” for these things I Myself—“FAITHFULL UNTO DEATH”—on your behalf and in your place on “the Tree of Life” the cross of my soul’s anguish, SUFFERED.

The synagogue of satan blasphemes against “these things” that “The First and The Last who became DEAD, indeed LIVED” [‘hos egeneto nekros kai edzehsen’], meaning, “ALIVE, DIED”. Jesus—“LIVING indeed DIED” in Paradise the Kingdom of God and the Son, the BATTLEFIELD between the Light of Life and the darkness of hell. [Verses 7 and 8 form a unit.]

It is not my, doctrine; it is the holy doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ and of the Church of the Reformation—for centuries and millennia, but discarded as were it blasphemy by the ‘movement’ calling itself the ‘Adventists’ who claim they are Jews and Sabbath-keepers but are neither.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I have posted enough posts by now to know when not to post.

I also. But then sometimes I have a temporary lapse of memory.