Did Jesus Have the Same nature as Adam. Or All of Us then?

[JamesL]

Jesus did not have sinful humanity....that is error.

What do you mean by humanity? And what Bible verse are you referencing which mentions humanity in the way you would define it?

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Yes, Jesus was God Incarnated as a Human being, but was His nature also sinless humanity, not sinner as ours all are?

Jesus was/is God. His body was simply a human body; the body/DNA of a Jewish man. He had no other "nature" than the nature of God.

 

[agedman]

That's a made-up Doctrine, and you won't find any Bible verse which states that. Pure fiction

Perhaps not those exact words, but the principle is that the innate nature of a person is sinful. And that one is born with that sinful nature.

Romans 5

12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mene because all sinned— 13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.​

Every person is born with passions and desires. Those passions and desires are that considered “of the flesh”. Because every person is born, as is all humankind having chromosomes “of the flesh,” the result being that the very nature of a person is born in sin. No person is born without passion and fleshly desires and therefore are by nature of the flesh, sinners.

Galatians 5:

16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21envy,d drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who doe such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.​

So the principle of Scriptures is that every person of the first Adam is born in sin and because they are born of the flesh have a nature of the flesh - a sin nature.

The doctrine, that you claim is a lie in your post, is actually fundamental to the presentation of Scripture.

 

[percho]

It's very simple, he was conceived and born into a fallen world.

The context of Psalm 51 deals with the sin...David committed. So in other words, David is essentially saying...I never stood a chance, thus I throw myself on your mercy.

Have you ever thought that the reference is to his mother's condition as well? Not in the sense that she sinned and became pregnant, but that her condition was that of condition all men are born into?

Secondly, shall we make Scripture to combat itself?


Psalm 139:13-15
King James Version (KJV)

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.


So which is it? He was shapen in iniquity and conceived in sin, and...fearfully and wonderfully made?

David simply speaks of the hopeless condition of man, and his dependence on God. Nothing in the verse to support that man has a disease called sin, and much that points out man is born without life, separated from God, and destined to sin.

That does not mean we impose sin on babies in the womb. They are condemned from conception due to their separation from God, not because they are sinful.


God bless.

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS Matt 1:23-25

Did eating of the fruit of the tree of death adulterate, virginity?


What was the purpose of the first virgin? an help meet / עֵזֶר / LXX βοηθὸς
Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, (βοηθός) and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Did Adam knowing Eve, usurp God?

Is that why all men are conceived in sin and shaped in iniquity? Other than Christ?

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Ps 51:5

BTW I am asking questions and trying to understand scriptures like Ps 51:5. I am not putting anything in stone.

I post this for discussion.

Jesus with the nature of Abraham / Adam yet without sin?

 

[percho]

What do you mean when you use the word "nature" ??

To me it means how one was created, that is subject to death and corruption of the flesh, for the purpose of God.

That purpose being stated in 1 John 3:8 and Hebrews 2:14.

Adam was created in his created nature for the purpose of the Son of God being manifested in that nature, for the purpose of destroying the works of the devil, which preceded and continued forward, from the creation of the man.

BTW that required the man and the woman taken from that man for the manifestation of the Son of God born of woman.

 

[Van]

Was/is He with the same type of Humanity Adam had when was created, sinless Humanity, or does He share in the exact same humanity that all of us have?

1) Was Jesus conceived as a sinner? No
2) Was Jesus conceived as someone separated from God because he/she was made a sinner? No
3) Did Jesus have a human spirit, formed within him? No, He is God incarnate.
4) Was Jesus 100% human? Yes
5) Was Jesus 100% God? Yes

 

[loDebar]

That's a made-up Doctrine, and you won't find any Bible verse which states that. Pure fiction

Sin is not inherited at all. We know this from

Eze 18:20

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of therighteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of thewicked shall be upon him

 

[agedman]

Sin is not inherited at all. We know this from

Eze 18:20

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of therighteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of thewicked shall be upon him

This is wrong thinking.

No one is born righteous.

Ezekiel is addressing the matter of payment for sin, not in what condition one is born.

The sin of my father is not held against me is what Ezekiel is contending.

But neither is my father's righteousness held in trust for me.

I bear "the iniquity" of my own, and the righteousness of Christ given to me is not based upon race, creed, heritage, blood type, language, health, wealth, social standing, ... It is a gift given specifically to me, irregardless of any predilection of precondition.

One is born infused in the will of the flesh, therefore they are born in Sin. Such as ALL are born in Sin.

It is the nature in which one is born.

I don't sin because of my father, but because that is the nature of who I am as a human.

This is why when one is "born from above" they are a NEW creature. They have a new will, a new body waiting for them, and all things pass away from the old.

 

[Yeshua1]

The answer is a resounding "yes".

Jesus shared in the same exact humanity that we have, but without sin. In fact, if you remove this exact same humanity (the humanity that we, who are made after Adam) have then you negate Christ's role as high priest. The author of Hebrews does not point to Adam prior to the Fall but rather to us (to men with the kind of humanity from which high priests were chosen) to prove that Christ came in the likeness of "sinful flesh", shared in our weaknesses, and can sympathize with us.

There is one difference, however, in that so often men have "unnatural passions". This, according to Scripture, is not something men are born with but something to which God gives men over. So I don't think that you can say that Jesus was tempted to steal, to lie, to cheat, to engage in immoral behavior, etc. But I do think that you can say that Jesus was tempted in all points (with natural desires of the flesh) as we are. He was tempted to eat when on an extended fast, perhaps to marry, to exercise dominion over which he has absolute dominion, to avoid the cross. But he submitted these desires of the flesh to the will of the Father, and prayed "not my will but thine".

Jesus was Human, also was very God, and in His Humanity was found a uniqueness that NONE of all other Mankind evr had, as he was sinless in nature and Person Period.
Do you think Jesus could have fallen as Adam did, or do you think that He resisted sinning ever just do to Him relying upon the Spirit, or also due to Him being very God?
ALL humanity was cursed and fallen since time of thje fall, so what exactly was jesus humanity if exactly same as ours then?

 

[Yeshua1]

What do you mean when you use the word "nature" ??

The eternal aspect of humans, that what makes us what we are, the aspect that felowships with God

We all inherit separation from God.

Scripture to support that sin is a disease passed through the body or spirit?


God bless.

God cursed all of humanity in the fall to experience spiritual and physical death!

 

[Yeshua1]

That's a made-up Doctrine, and you won't find any Bible verse which states that. Pure fiction

Only to those who refuse the truth of scripture is it false!

 

[Yeshua1]

The answer is a resounding "yes".

Jesus shared in the same exact humanity that we have, but without sin. In fact, if you remove this exact same humanity (the humanity that we, who are made after Adam) have then you negate Christ's role as high priest. The author of Hebrews does not point to Adam prior to the Fall but rather to us (to men with the kind of humanity from which high priests were chosen) to prove that Christ came in the likeness of "sinful flesh", shared in our weaknesses, and can sympathize with us.

There is one difference, however, in that so often men have "unnatural passions". This, according to Scripture, is not something men are born with but something to which God gives men over. So I don't think that you can say that Jesus was tempted to steal, to lie, to cheat, to engage in immoral behavior, etc. But I do think that you can say that Jesus was tempted in all points (with natural desires of the flesh) as we are. He was tempted to eat when on an extended fast, perhaps to marry, to exercise dominion over which he has absolute dominion, to avoid the cross. But he submitted these desires of the flesh to the will of the Father, and prayed "not my will but thine".

Jesus took upon himself our flesh and blood human body, but his nature was and is sinless in nature, NNE else in History can claim that, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Perhaps not those exact words, but the principle is that the innate nature of a person is sinful. And that one is born with that sinful nature.

Romans 5

12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mene because all sinned— 13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.​

Every person is born with passions and desires. Those passions and desires are that considered “of the flesh”. Because every person is born, as is all humankind having chromosomes “of the flesh,” the result being that the very nature of a person is born in sin. No person is born without passion and fleshly desires and therefore are by nature of the flesh, sinners.

Galatians 5:

16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21envy,d drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who doe such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.​

So the principle of Scriptures is that every person of the first Adam is born in sin and because they are born of the flesh have a nature of the flesh - a sin nature.

The doctrine, that you claim is a lie in your post, is actually fundamental to the presentation of Scripture.

If there was/is nothing to original Sin, than Paul contrasting the First and Second Adam argument goes straight down the tubes...

 

[Yeshua1]

This is wrong thinking.

No one is born righteous.

Ezekiel is addressing the matter of payment for sin, not in what condition one is born.

The sin of my father is not held against me is what Ezekiel is contending.

But neither is my father's righteousness held in trust for me.

I bear "the iniquity" of my own, and the righteousness of Christ given to me is not based upon race, creed, heritage, blood type, language, health, wealth, social standing, ... It is a gift given specifically to me, irregardless of any predilection of precondition.

One is born infused in the will of the flesh, therefore they are born in Sin. Such as ALL are born in Sin.

It is the nature in which one is born.

I don't sin because of my father, but because that is the nature of who I am as a human.

This is why when one is "born from above" they are a NEW creature. They have a new will, a new body waiting for them, and all things pass away from the old.

Jesus came down to us from above, for only Someone who was God and a sinless Human could be the Messiah, and why have the Virgin Birth of Original Sin does not exist?

 

[JonC]

Jesus was Human, also was very God, and in His Humanity was found a uniqueness that NONE of all other Mankind evr had, as he was sinless in nature and Person Period.
Do you think Jesus could have fallen as Adam did, or do you think that He resisted sinning ever just do to Him relying upon the Spirit, or also due to Him being very God?
ALL humanity was cursed and fallen since time of thje fall, so what exactly was jesus humanity if exactly same as ours then?

Yes, Jesus was human. But a Jesus who did not share the nature that we have could not have been a Jesus who saved us. Paul's point is that Jesus shared in our humanity, sympathized with our weaknesses.

It does not matter whether or not Jesus could have sinned (that's a philosophical question Scripture does not discuss). The point is that Jesus did not sin. Jesus was tempted by Satan to satisfy his physical hunger (a desire of the flesh) when he was fasting, yet overcame that temptation. Jesus prayed not his will, that the cup should pass, but the will of the Father that he would suffer it for our sake.

Be careful not to let philosophy lead you from what Scripture doesn't teach. It is better to have holes in your theories than fillers in the pillars of your faith. "Painter's caulk" theology may look good, but it will simply not hold up.

 

[JonC]

Jesus took upon himself our flesh and blood human body, but his nature was and is sinless in nature, NNE else in History can claim that, correct?

We sin, not our natures. I've addressed this in the last post.

 

[Yeshua1]

We all inherit separation from God.

Scripture to support that sin is a disease passed through the body or spirit?


God bless.

Adam and Eve both "knew" somehow that their relationship with God was dead, so they needed to have God provide for them an offering/sacrifice to retore it back, and why would it not be a spiritual death that happened to them? They were not natural people, no internal capacity to enjoy and commune with God...

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, Jesus was human. But a Jesus who did not share the nature that we have could not have been a Jesus who saved us. Paul's point is that Jesus shared in our humanity, sympathized with our weaknesses.

It does not matter whether or not Jesus could have sinned (that's a philosophical question Scripture does not discuss). The point is that Jesus did not sin. Jesus was tempted by Satan to satisfy his physical hunger (a desire of the flesh) when he was fasting, yet overcame that temptation. Jesus prayed not his will, that the cup should pass, but the will of the Father that he would suffer it for our sake.

Be careful not to let philosophy lead you from what Scripture doesn't teach. It is better to have holes in your theories than fillers in the pillars of your faith. "Painter's caulk" theology may look good, but it will simply not hold up.

Jesus was born of the Virgin Birth method in order to maintain sinless nature on His humanity, or else he would have been seen as part of fallen humanity, and he resisted sinning due to Him being God...
He actually experienced sin FAR greater way than us, for how can sinners always in darkness understand how One whose very nature cannot abide any darkness now finds Himself surrounded by it on all sides?

 

[Yeshua1]

We sin, not our natures. I've addressed this in the last post.

We sin because/due to our natures!

 

[JonC]

Jesus was born of the Virgin Birth method in order to maintain sinless nature on His humanity, or else he would have been seen as part of fallen humanity, and he resisted sinning due to Him being God...
He actually experienced sin FAR greater way than us, for how can sinners always in darkness understand how One whose very nature cannot abide any darkness now finds Himself surrounded by it on all sides?

But this is not what Paul teaches. It is not what the author of Hebrews teaches. It is not what Jesus taught. It isn't what Peter taught. Where exactly are you getting this sin passed through physical genetics stuff anyway?