Did Jesus Have the Same nature as Adam. Or All of Us then?

[agedman]

While I understand your logic, I disagree. We are guilty because, like Adam, it is in our power not to sin yet we find ourselves unable because we are unwilling. We look to ourselves and not to God, to our desires over God's will. Christ had the same natural desires of the flesh but submitted to the will of the Father. The difference is not natures but obedience (an unwavering faith in God).

Part of this I agree when taking the “we” as believers. For believers actually have both “natures” in which they may freely make dominant. Much of Paul’s imploring is concerning that “conversation” lived out.

What is not accounted is that unbelievers are in no such condition. The ungodly do not because they cannot. Their rebellious condition that is evident from even before birth is lived out in all manner of failed attempts to live “good” and “doing right.”

Christ did not have that will of the first Adam, that rebelliousness of human nature passed down from the fathers, but of that which was of Himself. Where we are “drawn away” by our own desires of the fleshly will, Christ would not be. What we experience as believers (fullness of Christ dwelling in us richly) only in part will be that fulfilled in the the new body where “we shall be like Him.”

 

[agedman]

Jesus was born with any sin in His nature, can anyone else evr born in History claim that, and so why was his humanity exactly like ours than?

Here is a perplexing question that the Scripture answers are not easy to reconcile in our human orientated thinking.

From God’s perspective, “humbled” carries the view of not retaining the rights and privelages of station and position, but allowing for submissive protection under the care of the Father to occur.

Also, “being found in the fashion (form) of humans” indicates that the form was a copy and not the actual original.

So, how does that fit our thinking of the static union of God and man - nicely, IF one does not get carried into philosophy and presentations that would tend to compromise the union in some manner.

 

[Yeshua1]

That is philosophy. Scripture presents Jesus as not desiring to suffer on the Cross. He submitted his will to the will of the Father, becoming obedient even to death. I see no merit in arguing that Jesus had no choice in the matter.

Jesus is God, so would God ever disagree wiith Himself?
It is not 3 gods, but ONE God, so again, does His persons ever have a disagreement among themselves?

 

[Yeshua1]

The only "wreck" the Bible speaks of is God subjecting creation to futility. Did you ever consider the possibility that God had redemption in view before He ever created man?

So there was no Universal curse put down on all creation due to the fall? Were not all who came after Adam and Eve, save for Jesus, under that?
Sin brought a tremidious wreak to humanity, lost relationship with God, each other, sinful evil acts and desires, correct?
And yes, God already had the Cross in mind before the Fall even happened!

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus was born into the very likeness of us, but not the very sameness, as he was a true human being, flesh/blood/, but was with any stain of sin in His nature of humanity.

 

[agedman]

Remember

Time and time lines are a tool God uses for human history benefit.

God is not conditioned to time, a time line, or runs out of time.

 

[Yeshua1]

The only "wreck" the Bible speaks of is God subjecting creation to futility. Did you ever consider the possibility that God had redemption in view before He ever created man?

So the fall of Adam did not cause devastation to us then?

 

[agedman]

So the fall of Adam did not cause devastation to us then?

Only in the manner that rebellion became the character of every person.

For example, “rebellion is in the heart of the child...”

Had Christ been born of the first Adam, Mary would have not only swaddled but no doubt swatted.

The sin of rebellion is the master heading in which all other sin are outlined beneath.

No child of human parentage is not rebellious from conception.

That is the result of the fall of Adam.

His failure is exactly the same as found in all of human parentage.

 

[Yeshua1]

Only in the manner that rebellion became the character of every person.

For example, “rebellion is in the heart of the child...”

Had Christ been born of the first Adam, Mary would have not only swaddled but no doubt swatted.

The sin of rebellion is the master heading in which all other sin are outlined beneath.

No child of human parentage is not rebellious from conception.

That is the result of the fall of Adam.

His failure is exactly the same as found in all of human parentage.

The underlining sin seems to be pride, a desire to not take God at His word, as we all "know better ourselves"

 

[agedman]

There is THE big difference between His humanity and all of ours, as Jesus was just as you described Him in being in His very person, and so he would not have even the capacity have sinned against the Father.

As the Scriptures state, “He became sin for us...”

He actively took the sin, it was not pushed upon Him, the same with all aspects of the crucifixion.

 

[Yeshua1]

As the Scriptures state, “He became sin for us...”

He actively took the sin, it was not pushed upon Him, the same with all aspects of the crucifixion.

Another mystery, for though he ceame in a sense sin, as being now the Sin Bearer, at no time did he eevr Himself sin, nor become a sinner! he also stayed same sinless humanity in very nature....

 

[agedman]

The underlining sin seems to be pride, a desire to not take God at His word, as we all "know better ourselves"

For sometime I considered it as such. But is not pride also a matter of rebellion?

Which came first?

The pride of one establishing the self more authoritative then God, or the rebellion in which one can allow them self to be lifted up in pride?

 

[agedman]

Another mystery, for though he ceame in a sense sin, as being now the Sin Bearer, at no time did he eevr Himself sin, nor become a sinner! he also stayed same sinless humanity in very nature....

“24He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.”

 

[Yeshua1]

“24He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.”

Its almost as if the sin debt was placed upon Him, but the actual sin itself never carried thru him, to contaminant him...

 

[JonC]

Jesus is God, so would God ever disagree wiith Himself?
It is not 3 gods, but ONE God, so again, does His persons ever have a disagreement among themselves?

Did Jesus ask if possible that the cup pass? Did Jesus pray "not my will but Yours"? Was Jesus legitimately tempted in the wilderness? Was He really tempted by Peter's statement that He avoid the Cross?

 

[Yeshua1]

Did Jesus ask if possible that the cup pass? Did Jesus pray "not my will but Yours"? Was Jesus legitimately tempted in the wilderness? Was He really tempted by Peter's statement that He avoid the Cross?

Yes, but in a even more intense way that any of us, as we all inside want to do that very temptation, but he had nothing within Him to desire and wanting to do it!

 

[JonC]

So there was no Universal curse put down on all creation due to the fall? Were not all who came after Adam and Eve, save for Jesus, under that?
Sin brought a tremidious wreak to humanity, lost relationship with God, each other, sinful evil acts and desires, correct?
And yes, God already had the Cross in mind before the Fall even happened!

1. No, there was. 2. No, all of mankind and all of creation fell under the curse. ALL of mankind to include Jesus who became a curse for us. 3. Incorrect. Sin and death entered the world, and mankind was enslaved to sin and death. But Jesus conquered sin and death.

 

[JonC]

Part of this I agree when taking the “we” as believers. For believers actually have both “natures” in which they may freely make dominant. Much of Paul’s imploring is concerning that “conversation” lived out.

What is not accounted is that unbelievers are in no such condition. The ungodly do not because they cannot. Their rebellious condition that is evident from even before birth is lived out in all manner of failed attempts to live “good” and “doing right.”

Christ did not have that will of the first Adam, that rebelliousness of human nature passed down from the fathers, but of that which was of Himself. Where we are “drawn away” by our own desires of the fleshly will, Christ would not be. What we experience as believers (fullness of Christ dwelling in us richly) only in part will be that fulfilled in the the new body where “we shall be like Him.”

I certainly agree that Christ did not have the will of Adam. Instead he made of himself no reputation and became obedient even to death - the exact opposite of Adam's (and our) sin.

 

[Yeshua1]

1. No, there was. 2. No, all of mankind and all of creation fell under the curse. ALL of mankind to include Jesus who became a curse for us. 3. Incorrect. Sin and death entered the world, and mankind was enslaved to sin and death. But Jesus conquered sin and death.

Jesus was NOT placed under the curse, for that would have meant that he was a sinner, and thus could not even save Himself. he was born under the law, but nor under the Curse!

 

[JonC]

Yes, but in a even more intense way that any of us, as we all inside want to do that very temptation, but he had nothing within Him to desire and wanting to do it!

The desire is not the temptation. The temptation is to place that desire over God's will and the sin is when we do.

Jesus desired to eat when he was hungry during the fast, He was tempted by Satan to do so, but He submitted the desire of the flesh to the will of the Father. Jesus desired that the cup pass, He was tempted by Satan in the words of Peter to avoid death, but He submitted His will to the will of the Father.

If we cannot understand that Jesus experienced desires of the flesh, suffered under these desires and temptations, then we cannot understand Christ as our Great High Priest.