Did Jesus Have the Same nature as Adam. Or All of Us then?

[Yeshua1]

Yes, we all die in Adam and we will be made alive in Christ. But Paul is referencing a physical death (which Christ shared) with the resurrection of our bodies (physical). Read 1 Cor. 15, not just a verse.

His point has to be more than that, as Adam caused spiritual death to come upon us all, and those now in Christ have spiritual/eternal life now!

 

[JonC]

Might it be that the eternity past estate of the Lord, no longer enjoyed as He humbled Himself is expressed in human terms as “learning” obedience when the “obedience” was a actually matter of submissive compliance.

What I am getting at is that the experience of the humiliation was not just taking on the human form but also the need to experientially function in that form as an example to believers to also be humble and experience submission. Something that the typically rebellious heart does not do very well if at all.

Is not this part of Hebrews 5?


The word “obedience” is also the word “compliance.”

When Christ went through the crucifixion he was compliant to the will of the Father. The focus is on a lack of rebellion. The exact opposite of the first Adam’s attitude.

I believe it is a part of Hebrews 5. Jesus the Son is not qualified to be our High Priest except He be one of us (which is the point of verses 5-6). Jesus was not made perfect through suffering except for that office (He was already morally perfect in every way, but the Sonship of Christ does not establish His priesthood....He had to be one of us).

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe it is a part of Hebrews 5. Jesus the Son is not qualified to be our High Priest except He be one of us (which is the point of verses 5-6). Jesus was not made perfect through suffering except for that office (He was already morally perfect in every way, but the Sonship of Christ does not establish His priesthood....He had to be one of us).

Jesus was made perfect human, a real man, but without any of the taint and damage that resulted from the fall!
A sinless nature....

 

[JonC]

His point has to be more than that, as Adam caused spiritual death to come upon us all, and those now in Christ have spiritual/eternal life now!

His point was out hope of a future bodily resurrection . In fact, that is what he said. Read the chapter.

 

[JonC]

His flesh/body was created by God for Him though, and the Virgin Birth made sure that it was kept pure and untainted form the fall!
He had the same type of body Adam was created in before he fell, not the same as we have, as our s carry around infirmity/sickness/disease, death from sin etc. but not His!

Odd. The Bible says exactly the opposite. I'm not sure where you have read that idea and it's a philosophy I'm really not interested in learning more about. It sounds suspiciously like Docetism.

 

[JamesL]

Jesus was born of the Virgin Birth method in order to maintain sinless nature on His humanity, or else he would have been seen as part of fallen humanity, and he resisted sinning due to Him being God...
He actually experienced sin FAR greater way than us, for how can sinners always in darkness understand how One whose very nature cannot abide any darkness now finds Himself surrounded by it on all sides?

That's nothing but Roman Catholic made up tradition, and it couldn't be any further from the truth. The reason he was born of a virgin was so that he would not have an Earthly father, and therefore would not receive an inheritance from any human. Read Romans 8 and Hebrews 1

 

[JamesL]

Eze 18:20

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him


If I did not receive a sin debt from my father how is the fall still in effect?

Physical death is the only affect we see from Adam. Our spirit come from God, and Adam did not have the power to corrupt that which comes from God

 

[JamesL]

Jesus was born into the very likeness of us, but not the very sameness, as he was a true human being, flesh/blood/, but was with any stain of sin in His nature of humanity.

Along that line of thought, would you say he's only in the likeness of God but not the sameness?

 

[Yeshua1]

His point was out hope of a future bodily resurrection . In fact, that is what he said. Read the chapter.

I have, and the Apostle is contrasting how one Adam brought the fall upon us, and other eternal/spiritual life...

 

[Yeshua1]

Along that line of thought, would you say he's only in the likeness of God but not the sameness?

No, for he is God, but He is also sinless humanity.

 

[JamesL]

Jesus was NOT placed under the curse, for that would have meant that he was a sinner, and thus could not even save Himself. he was born under the law, but nor under the Curse!

Wrong. The curse of Adam brought physical death. Are you suggesting Jesus didn't actually die?

 

[Yeshua1]

Physical death is the only affect we see from Adam. Our spirit come from God, and Adam did not have the power to corrupt that which comes from God

The fall of Adam brought the judgement from God upon all in the likeness of Adam to have the same result, sin natures, save for jesus, due to Virgin Birth.

 

[JamesL]

The fall of Adam brought the judgement from God upon all in the likeness of Adam to have the same result, sin natures, save for jesus, due to Virgin Birth.

I dare you to find that in the Bible

 

[JamesL]

The underlining sin seems to be pride, a desire to not take God at His word, as we all "know better ourselves"

I think that's actually you, considering you never ever quote any Scripture. It's always just your opinion

 

[JonC]

I have, and the Apostle is contrasting how one Adam brought the fall upon us, and other eternal/spiritual life...

Not according to Paul. The explanation you extract one verse from was proving this point - "But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep."

Did you even take the time to read the chapter???

 

[JonC]

Along that line of thought, would you say he's only in the likeness of God but not the sameness?

I was thinking the same. What @Yeshua1 is suggesting is an old heresy just wrapped in more deceptive language. Saying Jesus was human (but not human like us) is just as much a denial of Christ's humanity as saying Jesus has a divine nature (just not like God) is a denial of His divinity.

 

[JamesL]

I really believe the discussion of nature has to depend on what the scriptures say. How does Scripture use the word?

 

[JamesL]

I was thinking the same. What @Yeshua1 is suggesting is an old heresy just wrapped in more deceptive language. Saying Jesus was human (but not human like us) is just as much a denial of Christ's humanity as saying Jesus has a divine nature (just not like God) is a denial of His divinity.

Exactly. And I believe all those old heresies shared one common faulty foundation.

Every one of them thought it was impossible for a sinless spirit to indwell a sinful body without that Spirit becoming sinful. That has contributed to almost all the error regarding this issue

That's why the Roman Catholics made up the doctrine of Immaculate Conception. They just couldn't understand how the sinless Christ could indwell a sinful body. But they knew that his body at least was descended from Mary who also had a sinful body. Wallah now all of a sudden she's born without a sinful body

But one thing I don't think any of them took into account then or even now, is the indwelling of The Believer by the Holy Spirit. Peter said we become partakers of the divine nature, which means the sinless spirit of God indwells our sinful and corrupt body even today. That doesn't mean the Holy Spirit becomes a sinner

 

[JonC]

I really believe the discussion of nature has to depend on what the scriptures say. How does Scripture use the word?

I think Scriputre best describes nature two ways – “flesh” and “spirit”. That which is born flesh is flesh, and that which is born spirit is spirit. Human nature is the flesh. Christ took upon Himself this nature. It is the desires of the flesh. And there is biblical evidence that this desire is not always in accordance with the will of God (although not sin in itself). For example, Jesus was tempted to satisfy the desires of the flesh in the wilderness but He overcame temptation. He desired in the flesh not to suffer and die, praying that if possible the cup would pass but not His will but the Father’s be done.

Christ took upon Himself human nature when He became flesh - the Logos (the Word, the Life) becoming human. This is the One nature (the Life, spiritual life, the Word) taking on another (human nature). The Catholic Church argued, debated, and developed a philosophy about how these two natures existed without mixture (mostly a philosophical argument). But Scripture does not separate the two natures in Christ. He is God. He is man. And, although the Catholics will always reject the idea, Scripture teaches that God the Son suffered and died a physical death (not suffered “in His human nature”, but suffered).

Until discussing topics on this board I had never realized just how much RCC doctrine undermines much of contemporary Protestant thought.

 

[percho]

You are wrong. Jesus was placed under the curse when He became a part of Creation. This is implied in the term "incarnation" as the Word became "flesh", and specifically stated more than once in Scripture.

I showed,

• Informative and could have even said agree. Let me ask.

Because the Word was made flesh would you agree with me that Romans 7:14 could even apply to Jesus?

7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Was Jesus, of the flesh, sold under our sin?

But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born [fn] of a woman, born under the law, Gal 4:4 NKJV