Did Jesus Have the Same nature as Adam. Or All of Us then?

[Yeshua1]

The desire is not the temptation. The temptation is to place that desire over God's will and the sin is when we do.

Jesus desired to eat when he was hungry during the fast, He was tempted by Satan to do so, but He submitted the desire of the flesh to the will of the Father. Jesus desired that the cup pass, He was tempted by Satan in the words of Peter to avoid death, but He submitted His will to the will of the Father.

If we cannot understand that Jesus experienced desires of the flesh, suffered under these desires and temptations, then we cannot understand Christ as our Great High Priest.

He experienced those, and yet still had no sinful nature, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

I certainly agree that Christ did not have the will of Adam. Instead he made of himself no reputation and became obedient even to death - the exact opposite of Adam's (and our) sin.

There will always be this infinite difference between Hima nd any other human. He was/is God.....

 

[JonC]

Jesus was NOT placed under the curse, for that would have meant that he was a sinner, and thus could not even save Himself. he was born under the law, but nor under the Curse!

You are wrong. Jesus was placed under the curse when He became a part of Creation. This is implied in the term "incarnation" as the Word became "flesh", and specifically stated more than once in Scripture.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are wrong. Jesus was placed under the curse when He became a part of Creation. This is implied in the term "incarnation" as the Word became "flesh", and specifically stated more than once in Scripture.

Are you saying than that Jesus Himself was born with same exact nature you and I were born with?

 

[JonC]

He experienced those, and yet still had no sinful nature, correct?

He had no sin. You seem caught up in this "nature" you would use as our excuse (we couldn't help it because that's just what we do type of thinking). But Scripture tells us that Jesus was made one of us (not kind of like one of us, not looked like one of us, but was made in the likeness of man....of sinful flesh....of corruptible flesh) yet without sin.

 

[Yeshua1]

He had no sin. You seem caught up in this "nature" you would use as our excuse (we couldn't help it because that's just what we do type of thinking). But Scripture tells us that Jesus was made one of us (not kind of like one of us, not looked like one of us, but was made in the likeness of man....of sinful flesh....of corruptible flesh) yet without sin.

ALL of us were corrupted and warped and flawed by the Fall in our humanity, was jesus?

 

[JonC]

Are you saying than that Jesus Himself was born with same exact nature you and I were born with?

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Jesus was not only God but He was a human as you and I. Yet without sin. (He had our nature and the desires of the flesh, but He remained obedient to the Father where we do not).

 

[JonC]

ALL of us were corrupted and warped and flawed by the Fall in our humanity, was jesus?

I'm not sure of your context. Please give me a passage reference.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Jesus was not only God but He was a human as you and I. Yet without sin. (He had our nature and the desires of the flesh, but He remained obedient to the Father where we do not).

So we are all born without original Sin, all born right with God? Not sinners by birth?

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm not sure of your context. Please give me a passage reference.

1 Corinthians 15:22

 

[JonC]

So we are all born without original Sin, all born right with God? Not sinners by birth?

Original sin is not a genetic disorder. I think that Paul was correct, that through Adam sin entered the world (original sin) and through sin death, and death spread to all man for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus did not sin, yet He set aside His own glory - not counting equality with God a thing to be grasped He humbled Himself by becoming obedient even to death.

We are human by birth, born under a curse, born "in Adam", born with desires of the flesh that are not always "in tuned" with God's will (e.g., when Christ prayed "not My will but Thine be done"). But "sin" does not occur until act on our desires above God's will (e.g., sin happens when we are carried away by our own desires).

 

[agedman]

I certainly agree that Christ did not have the will of Adam. Instead he made of himself no reputation and became obedient even to death - the exact opposite of Adam's (and our) sin.

How do you align humility and obedience in that verse?

For example: do you see humility as taking on the humanity and obedience as a learning process?

 

[Yeshua1]

Original sin is not a genetic disorder. I think that Paul was correct, that through Adam sin entered the world (original sin) and through sin death, and death spread to all man for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus did not sin, yet He set aside His own glory - not counting equality with God a thing to be grasped He humbled Himself by becoming obedient even to death.

We are human by birth, born under a curse, born "in Adam", born with desires of the flesh that are not always "in tuned" with God's will (e.g., when Christ prayed "not My will but Thine be done"). But "sin" does not occur until act on our desires above God's will (e.g., sin happens when we are carried away by our own desires).

Did Jesus lay aside any of His Deity? And what you described is the very sin nature father Adam "earned" for us all, save for Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus was NOT placed under the curse, for that would have meant that he was a sinner, and thus could not even save Himself. he was born under the law, but nor under the Curse!

To be under the curse would have been Him being seen by the Father as same spiritual state as rest of humanity....

 

[JonC]

How do you align humility and obedience in that verse?

For example: do you see humility as taking on the humanity and obedience as a learning process?

I do not see it as a learning process but rather as Christ becoming the Perfector of our faith (e.g., Christ being "made perfect" through suffering). I see this humanity and obedience as speaking of the Incarnation to the Cross, and God justifying/vindicating Him in the Resurrection.

 

[JonC]

To be under the curse would have been Him being seen by the Father as same spiritual state as rest of humanity....

No, it wouldn't. It would be Jesus actually becoming a curse for us, coming in the likeness of sinful flesh.

 

[agedman]

I do not see it as a learning process but rather as Christ becoming the Perfector of our faith (e.g., Christ being "made perfect" through suffering). I see this humanity and obedience as speaking of the Incarnation to the Cross, and God justifying/vindicating Him in the Resurrection.

Might it be that the eternity past estate of the Lord, no longer enjoyed as He humbled Himself is expressed in human terms as “learning” obedience when the “obedience” was a actually matter of submissive compliance.

What I am getting at is that the experience of the humiliation was not just taking on the human form but also the need to experientially function in that form as an example to believers to also be humble and experience submission. Something that the typically rebellious heart does not do very well if at all.

Is not this part of Hebrews 5?


The word “obedience” is also the word “compliance.”

When Christ went through the crucifixion he was compliant to the will of the Father. The focus is on a lack of rebellion. The exact opposite of the first Adam’s attitude.

 

[JonC]

1 Corinthians 15:22

Yes, we all die in Adam and we will be made alive in Christ. But Paul is referencing a physical death (which Christ shared) with the resurrection of our bodies (physical). Read 1 Cor. 15, not just a verse.

 

[Yeshua1]

No, it wouldn't. It would be Jesus actually becoming a curse for us, coming in the likeness of sinful flesh.

So Jesus had a sin nature then?

 

[Yeshua1]

No, it wouldn't. It would be Jesus actually becoming a curse for us, coming in the likeness of sinful flesh.

His flesh/body was created by God for Him though, and the Virgin Birth made sure that it was kept pure and untainted form the fall!
He had the same type of body Adam was created in before he fell, not the same as we have, as our s carry around infirmity/sickness/disease, death from sin etc. but not His!