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Did Jesus Really Die For Judas?

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Reformed1689

Reformed1689

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37818 said:
What fact did I ignore? Present that detail.

Judas was explicitly counted as one of them in Luke 22:19-21, ". . . And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. . . ."
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That earlier in the same event Jesus states that even though he says you, he is not talking about all 12. We also know Jesus ONLY laid down his life for the Sheep. He said so.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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Reynolds said:
A devil is not The Devil.
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Meet the 'seed of the serpent', of which Judas was one:

"..."And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:15).....Here we have the beginning and germ of all prophecy." A.W. Pink

Did Jesus die for these?

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. Jn 8

These?:

33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell? Mt 23

These?:

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mt 3

These?:

5 They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness. Dt 32

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet: Mt 12

...and there's many more examples that could be given...
 
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37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
That earlier in the same event Jesus states that even though he says you, he is not talking about all 12. We also know Jesus ONLY laid down his life for the Sheep. He said so.
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So where did Jesus say that in Luke 22? Where Jesus teach that in John 13? Now Judas was excluded in John 13:10 and John 13:18. But not in Luke 22:19-21.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

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37818 said:
So where in Luke 22? Where in John 13? Now Judas was excluded in John 13:10 and John 13:18. But not in Luke 22:19-21.
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Did I say that? No. What I said is when you look at the whole "you" does not always mean all 12. Jesus was not promising Judas anything at the last supper and He made that clear. That is consistent with the rest of Scripture. Judas had no part in the atonement.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
Did I say that? No. What I said is when you look at the whole "you" does not always mean all 12. Jesus was not promising Judas anything at the last supper and He made that clear. That is consistent with the rest of Scripture. Judas had no part in the atonement.
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All 12 were referred to in Luke 22:19. Judas was excluded from the 12 in John 13:10 and John 13:18.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
Did I say that? No. What I said is when you look at the whole "you" does not always mean all 12. Jesus was not promising Judas anything at the last supper and He made that clear. That is consistent with the rest of Scripture. Judas had no part in the atonement.
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The Biblical fact is Judas was included in "them" and "you" in Luke 22:19-20.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
The Biblical fact is Judas was included in "them" and "you" in Luke 22:19-20.
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@Reformed1689 and the rest of his like, are content in wresting with the Word of God, to push their "theology", even when their own, like Gill, Calvin and Henry, admit that Judas was included in taking the Bread and Wine, and Jesus said to the TWELVE, that He was going to die for them ALL!

Commenting on Mark 14:24, where Jesus says that His death is a “ransom for many”, which is part of the Lord's Supper in Mark's Gospel, Calvin says:

“Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race”

Clearly shows that Calvin believed that Jesus shed His blood for Judas!
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
No by understanding Luke is not the full account of the last supper.
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I have done a verse by verse study of the "last supper." Luke shows Judas was a part of it, Luke 22:19-21. Matthew and Mark show Judas put his hand a bowl with Jesus before instituting His remembrance. Jesus after the supper gave Judas a morsel sending him out to betray Him.
 
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