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Featured Did Jesus Really Die For Judas?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed1689, Nov 15, 2021.

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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    That earlier in the same event Jesus states that even though he says you, he is not talking about all 12. We also know Jesus ONLY laid down his life for the Sheep. He said so.
     
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  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Meet the 'seed of the serpent', of which Judas was one:

    "..."And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:15).....Here we have the beginning and germ of all prophecy." A.W. Pink

    Did Jesus die for these?

    44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
    47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. Jn 8

    These?:

    33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell? Mt 23

    These?:

    7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mt 3

    These?:

    5 They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
    20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness. Dt 32

    39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet: Mt 12

    ...and there's many more examples that could be given...
     
    #22 kyredneck, Nov 15, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
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  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    All? Cite one thing I ignored that you think I need to address. We will take each one one at a time.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So where did Jesus say that in Luke 22? Where Jesus teach that in John 13? Now Judas was excluded in John 13:10 and John 13:18. But not in Luke 22:19-21.
     
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Did I say that? No. What I said is when you look at the whole "you" does not always mean all 12. Jesus was not promising Judas anything at the last supper and He made that clear. That is consistent with the rest of Scripture. Judas had no part in the atonement.
     
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    All 12 were referred to in Luke 22:19. Judas was excluded from the 12 in John 13:10 and John 13:18.
     
  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Except we know his body was not broken for Judas so no, he was not included or Jesus is a liar.
     
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  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The Biblical fact is Judas was included in "them" and "you" in Luke 22:19-20.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    @Reformed1689 and the rest of his like, are content in wresting with the Word of God, to push their "theology", even when their own, like Gill, Calvin and Henry, admit that Judas was included in taking the Bread and Wine, and Jesus said to the TWELVE, that He was going to die for them ALL!

    Commenting on Mark 14:24, where Jesus says that His death is a “ransom for many”, which is part of the Lord's Supper in Mark's Gospel, Calvin says:

    Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race

    Clearly shows that Calvin believed that Jesus shed His blood for Judas!
     
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  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Even that can be debated if Judas was even there at that point.
     
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  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    @Reformed1689, using the "funny" response, shows that you really CAANOT refute what I have said! Typical for a "reformed" person! :rolleyes:
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    then refute my link in # 28!
     
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  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    By denial of the word of God, which is not rational. Luke 22:19-22.
     
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  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    No I used the funny response because you take comments out of context, twist things, and say "Hey look I win!"
     
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I'm in this thread. If you want to make an argument make it here.
     
  18. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    No by understanding Luke is not the full account of the last supper.
     
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  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    the arguments are very clear in the link provided, if you think that your position is correct, then refute what I have said!
     
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  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I have done a verse by verse study of the "last supper." Luke shows Judas was a part of it, Luke 22:19-21. Matthew and Mark show Judas put his hand a bowl with Jesus before instituting His remembrance. Jesus after the supper gave Judas a morsel sending him out to betray Him.
     
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