There you go then… Okay would you define him as a sacrificial lamb?
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Did Jesus Really Die For Judas?
- Thread starter Reformed1689
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- atonement
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No. Definitely not. I would describe him as a vessel prepared for destruction.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Your theological view is what is causing the problem for you. You think that just because Christ Jesus paid the debt it does not have to be accepted. If I offer a thirsty man a bottle of water they are still thirsty unless they accept it and drink it. The same for Gods' offer of salvation it is a gift that has to be accepted. God does not force anyone to be saved.
Okay but did he do that himself or did the Lord use him to those ends?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I would say both.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Not an equal analogy. If someone pays my fine in my place it doesn't matter if I accept it or not, it is covered in full. I no longer have the penalty.
just bumping
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I must admit that your complete refusal to accept what the bible says as regards salvation is surprising since you say you have been a Christian for 43+ yrs. How can you ignore all the texts that say we are to believe in Christ Jesus for salvation. Are they not in your bible? For you to just pass those by shows a lack of regard for Gods' word.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
In these verses "believe" is in the active voice which means that the person has to believe not that God believes for them. Salvation is a gift of God to those that believe. You should trust scripture not a theological view.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Yes I would expect that you will deny what scripture says so you can hold on to your theological view. The bible shows the error of your view but you deny that so we reach an impasse.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
False accusation first of all. And no, the Bible does not show my view to be an error. But I love how you went for the ad hominem rather than address my post.
Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Gods ways are not our ways neither are his thoughts our thoughts... Brother Glen
To the OP Judas is in Gods hands not ours!
Nope.
I think that if all sin is fully paid for, that means all sin, including not repenting and not believing and the sin of not accepting.
All sins paid for without exception means...without any conditions.
So, are their conditional sins that Jesus did not pay for on the cross?
If yes, then you have a limited atonement. If no, then a person cannot be condemned for unbelief, non-repentance or not accepting Jesus. Unlimited atonement has no limit, no condition, no exceptions to the atonement.
Yet, here you and sbg are, setting limits and making exceptions.
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