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Did Jesus Really Die For Judas?

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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
I asked you already, yet you keep dodging.
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OK

Atonement: is to "RECONCILE", which is when the sinner is saved and a Child of God
Death: is that Jesus Christ has paid the price for the sins of the human race, but only when the sinner repents and believes, is this applied to them.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
So the Bible contradicts itself?
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NO, but your refusing to accept ALL the Gospel accounts, including Luke, prevents you from accepting that Judas did take the Bread and Wine, and Jesus did tell Judas, that He was shedding His blood for him. Your refusal to accept this is theologcial!
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
OK

Atonement: is to "RECONCILE", which is when the sinner is saved and a Child of God
Death: is that Jesus Christ has paid the price for the sins of the human race, but only when the sinner repents and believes, is this applied to them.
Click to expand...
So Christ paid for some sins and that was wasted? The price is paid but it wasn't sufficient?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
NO, but your refusing to accept ALL the Gospel accounts, including Luke, prevents you from accepting that Judas did take the Bread and Wine, and Jesus did tell Judas, that He was shedding His blood for him. Your refusal to accept this is theologcial!
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I'm not refusing anything. I'm merely pointing out that there is a potential problem with your viewpoint.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
So Christ paid for some sins and that was wasted? The price is paid but it wasn't sufficient?
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Nothing is "wasted", but only to the "reformed/calvinist"!

Simply put, a doctor has the only 100% cure for Covid. Unless those who are sick, go to this doctor, and take his medicine, they will not have 100% protection, and will probably die. Now, because those who would not take the medicine, died, does this mean that the doctor or is medicine "failed"?

Unless the sinner REPENTS and BELIEVES, they cannot receive the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ to cover their sins, and be forgiven! It is SO SIMPLE, to ALL, except the narrow-minded "reformed/calvinist"!
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Nothing is "wasted", but only to the "reformed/calvinist"!

Simply put, a doctor has the only 100% cure for Covid. Unless those who are sick, go to this doctor, and take his medicine, they will not have 100% protection, and will probably die. Now, because those who would not take the medicine, died, does this mean that the doctor or is medicine "failed"?

Unless the sinner REPENTS and BELIEVES, they cannot receive the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ to cover their sins, and be forgiven! It is SO SIMPLE, to ALL, except the narrow-minded "reformed/calvinist"!
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Your analogy presents limited atonement and in fact you, yourself, limit the effectiveness of the blood to only those who believe. For those who don't believe, there is no atonement for sin.

Now, I expect you to stammer and stutter and create more and more laws to your means of salvation (you truly have a terrible grasp of grace) so as to try get around your massive contradictions. However, you do limit the atonement while falsely claiming it is unlimited.

Therefore, Jesus did not atone for Judas, even in your scenario. You just make human behavior the source of supreme power that negates Jesus atonement (yes, you teach Jesus blood wasted) rather than Jesus dying exactly for each person the Father has given him.
Your version is a very sloppy and haphazard limited atonement that is man-centered.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Your analogy presents limited atonement and in fact you, yourself, limit the effectiveness of the blood to only those who believe. For those who don't believe, there is no atonement for sin.

Now, I expect you to stammer and stutter and create more and more laws to your means of salvation (you truly have a terrible grasp of grace) so as to try get around your massive contradictions. However, you do limit the atonement while falsely claiming it is unlimited.
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Dude, I am sorry that some over the pond struggle with the English langauge! Let me try to help you out here.

Jesus Christ has shed His Blood for "everyone without exception". This Blood is the ONLY remedy for the washing away of the sinners sins, and being saved from eternal punishment.

It is up to the individual sinner, to ACCEPT this, by their REPENTING and BELIEVING, so that they can get saved

Those who refuse, will be damned!

Can you grasp this. If Not I can put this in Hebrew, Greek or Latin!
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Dude, I am sorry that some over the pond struggle with the English langauge! Let me try to help you out here.

Jesus Christ has shed His Blood for "everyone without exception". This Blood is the ONLY remedy for the washing away of the sinners sins, and being saved from eternal punishment.

It is up to the individual sinner, to ACCEPT this, by their REPENTING and BELIEVING, so that they can get saved

Those who refuse, will be damned!

Can you grasp this. If Not I can put this in Hebrew, Greek or Latin!
Click to expand...
Why then are you making exceptions?
You have two exceptions.
1) Not repenting
2) Not believing

For those two sins you declare that Jesus blood is not effective. "Those who refuse will be damned" is your words. You make exceptions and thus you make your own assertion false.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Nothing is "wasted", but only to the "reformed/calvinist"!

Simply put, a doctor has the only 100% cure for Covid. Unless those who are sick, go to this doctor, and take his medicine, they will not have 100% protection, and will probably die. Now, because those who would not take the medicine, died, does this mean that the doctor or is medicine "failed"?

Unless the sinner REPENTS and BELIEVES, they cannot receive the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ to cover their sins, and be forgiven! It is SO SIMPLE, to ALL, except the narrow-minded "reformed/calvinist"!
Click to expand...
That is hardly an equal analogy.
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Back to the OP... Did Jesus really die for Judas?... According to scripture... NO!

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Psalm 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

True of David... True of Jesus Christ... Brother Glen:)
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
tyndale1946 said:
Back to the OP... Did Jesus really die for Judas?... According to scripture... NO!

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Psalm 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

True of David... True of Jesus Christ... Brother Glen:)
Click to expand...

Your Bible must be different? Versions like the KJV clearly say in Luke 22 that Jesus did die for Judas
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
At most, Luke 22 could possibly say Jesus was beaten for Judas and blood spilled for Judas. It does not say he died for Judas.
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verse 20 says

Likewise, he took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you

Jesus DIED for the sins of Judas!
 
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