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Did Jesus Suffer in Hell? Part 1

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Herb Evans, Dec 6, 2006.

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  1. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    By the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead, he went and preached to them in the days of Noah. Not to their spirits but to them and probably through Noah.
    I agree they are in hell today except the eight souls that were saved.

    1 Peter 3:
    18: For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    19: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    20: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    Hell is a place of confinement besides being a place of punishment. You will find where the grave was a hell and also when Jonah was in the belly of the whale he said "out of the belly of hell, cried I". So it is a place where one is confined. Now it could not of been the tomb where Jesus laid for His soul was not in the tomb. I think it was when He was confined to the cross and His hell was the torment He went through for our sins while being confined to the cross. He did not remain there and said "Father I commend my Spirit unto thy hands" and gave up the Ghost to fulfill the scriptures. His body of course went to the tomb but God did not suffer it to see corruption either for He arose the third day as He had promised.
    This is my belief about:

    Acts: 2

    "27": Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    No reason whatsoever to go to the Hell of fire for all are lost down there already. Twice dead and already plucked up by the roots.
     
    #21 Brother Bob, Dec 9, 2006
  2. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    Hello Herb,

    I do not know for sure, but it seems like maybe you have a mis-understanding about Calvinism. Please forgive me if I am wrong. Let me share a few things.

    All Calvinist that I know believe in prayer. Pink wrote a very good book on prayer.

    Pink...
    http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Fervent_Prayer/fervent_prayer.htm

    The best book on prayer..that I know of..John Bunyan/A Discourse Touching Prayer/ writen while in prison..1662
    http://acacia.pair.com/Acacia.John.Bunyan/Sermons.Allegories/Discourse.Touching.Prayer/index.html

    Bunyan as I'm sure you know was a Calvinist.

    **********************
    AS TO THE PASSAGE..PLEASE NOTICE

    Job is addressing this feeling that God has left him. He is not talking to God, but rather to his freinds, but in a way Job means God too. And there is nothing Job can do about it. Job feels helpless. This is Job feeling..and in the end what does God say? God agrees with Job near the end of the book.

     
    #22 Jarthur001, Dec 9, 2006
  3. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    bound]Today Hades tearfully sighs: 'Would that I had not received Him who was born of Mary, for He came to me and destroyed my power; He broke my bronze gates, and being God, delivered the souls I had been holding captive.' O, Lord, glory to your cross and to your holy resurrection.

    Herb Evans did all that? Wow!! -- Herb Evans

    Early Christians expressed the truths of our faith with allagory... or did they? :saint:

    Well the ones that had to do with inspired Scripture did. Are you one of those? -- Herb Evans

    PS: I don't think He suffered He entered Triumphant! Amen!

    Verse and Chapter? -- Herb Evans
     
    #23 Herb Evans, Dec 9, 2006
  4. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    #24 Herb Evans, Dec 9, 2006
  5. bound

    bound New Member

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    No Herb Evans didn't do all that but I absolutely 'love' the topic. I believe this is from the perspective of 'death' yeilding up her dead.

    Am I an Early Christian? Of course not it's 2006 AD. :thumbs:

    No verse or chapter, just thinking that God really can't suffer or die. Not in the any sense that might make any sense.

    Chalk this one up under 'conjecture'.
     
    #25 bound, Dec 9, 2006
  6. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    OH! Okay! :sleeping_2: -- Herb Evans
     
    #26 Herb Evans, Dec 10, 2006
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Two things to start with:

    1) When Christ said "It is finished," he was alive and breathing, yet no one here would say that he did not have to go ahead and die to make atonement. The "It is finished," argument can't be used to rebut the descent into hell, as it is connected with Christ's death.

    2) We're told that Christ tasted death for every man, yet for 2000 years, Christians have been dying. Just what aspect of death was it that Christ tasted to spare us?
     
    #27 Aaron, Dec 10, 2006
  8. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    Aaron]Two things to start with:

    1) When Christ said "It is finished," he was alive and breathing, yet no one here would say that he did not have to go ahead and die to make atonement. The "It is finished," argument can't be used to rebut the descent into hell, as it is connected with Christ's death.

    Well, if He would have said it after He died, no one would have heard Him. :laugh: But for your info, the suffering for sin for us was finished. -- Herb Evans

    2) We're told that Christ tasted death for every man, yet for 2000 years, Christians have been dying. Just what aspect of death was it that Christ tasted to spare us?

    Separation from the Father and physical death. My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me? -- Herb Evans
     
    #28 Herb Evans, Dec 10, 2006
  9. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    For those who face the second death before the White Throne Judgement will not have to ask that question. For those who have been redeemed and on their way to heaven in the resurrection, they neither will have to ask that queston.
     
    #29 Brother Bob, Dec 10, 2006
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I know this wasn't serious, but I still want to point out that physical death is not a barrier to Christ's communication with us. He was raised from the dead and could have at that point said, "It is finished." Indeed, no one would say that the work of salvation would have been accomplished without His death AND resurrection. So even though many argue against Christ's descent into hell with this passage, no one really believes that His statement "It is finished" means that the work of atonement at that moment was accomplished.

    And His death was not part of that suffering?

    We're obviously not saved from physical death.

    What are the "pains of death" in Acts 2:24?

    To cut to the chase, Christ tasted the Second Death for every man, which is what I think Brother Bob said in his post above.
     
    #30 Aaron, Dec 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2006
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    :thumbs: ..............
     
    #31 Brother Bob, Dec 10, 2006
  12. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    There are no barriers to Christs's communications under any circumstance, but this was Christ's announcement to all that were there, to be recorded for all to read. The O.T. prophecies regarding Christ's suffering and death were fulfilled.-- Herb Evans



    Oh? I did not realize than He was euthanized without pain. I should no longer say that He died for me or that he died in my place or that I should have been on that cross? The shedding of blood was unecessary for the remission of sins?-- Herb Evans



    Obviously, unless the rapture takes place, and that is covered by His physical death. Nevertheless, we are saved from hell by His death on the cross. Without the shedding of blood is NO remission. And I don't think that means a mere cut. -- Herb Evans



    Why don't you answer your own question, so that we know where you are going with it. You tell me what the following Psalm means. -- Hreb Evans

    Psa 116:1 I love the LORD, because he hath heard my voice and my supplications.
    Psa 116:2 Because he hath inclined his ear unto me, therefore will I call upon him as long as I live.
    Psa 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
    Psa 116:4 Then called I upon the name of the LORD; O LORD, I beseech thee, deliver my soul.
    Psa 116:5 Gracious is the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.
    Psa 116:6 The LORD preserveth the simple: I was brought low, and he helped me.
    Psa 116:7 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee.
    Psa 116:8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling.
    Psa 116:9 I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living.



    He indeed did that. But He also died for my sins, and without the shedding of blood, there is no remission. That remission occurs in this life before the second death. There is the first death that castes the sinner into hell that must also be dealt with. If christ did not die for me on the cross, I would go to the first hell when I die. -- Herb Evans
     
    #32 Herb Evans, Dec 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2006
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    The same shedding of blood is for sin, and that is how you escape the second death. The atonement was made for every man

    to God, but man must believe (through faith), to receive that blood in this life, and that is what delivers him from death unto

    life, now inwardly and the creature itself shall be delivered ALSO from the bondage of corruption unto a lively hope in Christ.

    That ALSO, is talking about the soul, already being delivered from the dead state of sin.

    My soul groaneth within, waiting for the redeemption of my body. (in the resurrection).

    If the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead be in you, it shall also quicken your mortal body.(in the resurrection)!
     
    #33 Brother Bob, Dec 10, 2006
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Then you agree He descended into the Lake of Fire.

    Rev 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Now concerning the pains of death. These are not physical pains. The sting of death is sin. A man who dies in his sin is not afraid of the physical pains of death. Indeed, many an unrighteous man enjoys a painfree, and peaceful physical death. The pains of death are the pains that come afterward. It is a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation.

    This is what Christ suffered for us.
     
    #34 Aaron, Dec 10, 2006
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    How do you know what a man feels in physical death? Have you ever died a physical death? Why testify to something you don't know nothing whatsoever about? Why do you think Jesus sweat as great drops of blood?

    Why testify to something that everyone alive knows you don't know anything about and I wonder why you seem to say you know? Bible teaches there is a "sting" to death. Also, it is the unknown. Even a bug tries to escape death, just try and step on it and watch it run.

    Because He tasted death for every man does not mean He went down into the Lake of Fire. jeepers,
     
    #35 Brother Bob, Dec 10, 2006
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  16. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Hello Brother Bob,
    It is good to see you. One thing for sure, none of us know what it feels like to experience death. It is very hard to believe those stories one hears about those who had left their body and come back.
     
    #36 saturneptune, Dec 10, 2006
  17. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    Bro Herb,
    When a man dies does it take a long time or short time to get to his final resting place? There was MUCH going on in those three days and three nites in the heart of the earth. IF the verse in Acts 2 is scripture then like it lump it or whatever His soul went to hell, else how could he say that his soul would NOT REMAIN there? Just as it states His body would not see corruption. But deny the scriptures we cannot eh? Acts 2 is inspired is it not? As for direct statement, the time to yield up His soul came AFTER death, eh? The gospel includes the death burial and resurrection as well, eh? -- Carroll

    Bro. Carroll,
    He did not use the word "REMAIN," the word "leave" was used. Whether in English or Greek, Acts 2 does not mean what you interpret it as. When I was at the ZOO, I did not leave my children in the Lion's cage. I did not put my cvhildren in the Lion's cage any more than the Father put Jesus in hell fire. -- Herb Evans

    Bro Herb,

    For it to "remain" it had to GO there. Here again is the word.

    Acts 2: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Unless you are consigning Davids soul to hell then the verse is speaking of Jesus or I'll guess the Holy One is Jesus. The sacrifice for sin was BURNT. Of course I don't understand it fully however I'm sure you don't either, in Greek or english. --Carroll

    But Bro. Carroll, the Bible word is not "remain," either in English or Greek. That is your word! -If your wife would "leave" you, she would "abandon" you. If you were not left, you were not abandoned. --Herb Evans

    Bro. Herb

    My point was His soul was IN hell and didn't stay there. Here is another verse concerning the first passover lamb that I found Bro.

    Exod 12: 8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. 9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof. 10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.

    Our Passover was roast with fire as well. -- Carroll

    You fellows seem determined to fry (roast) Jesus in hellfire. Was Jesus also cut apart and eaten? -- herb Evans

    Bro. Herb,

    Leave: LEAVE, v.t. pret. and pp. left. [Gr. Let in English has the sense both of permit and of hinder. The most prominent significations of leave, are to stop or forbear, and to withdraw.]

    1.     To withdraw or depart from; to quit for a longer or shorter time indefinitely, or for perpetuity. We left Cowes on our return to the United States, May 10, 1825. We leave home for a day or a year. The fever leaves the patient daily at a certain hour. The secretary has left the business of his office with his first clerk. A man shall leave his father and his mother, and cleave to his wife. Gen. 2.

    2. To forsake; to desert; to abandon; to relinquish. We have left all and followed thee. Mark 10.

    3. To suffer to remain; not to take or remove. Let no man leave of it till the morning. Ex. 16.

    4. To have remaining at death; as, to leave a good name.

    5. To commit or trust to, as a deposit; or to suffer to remain. I left thepapers in the care of the consul.

    6. To bequeath; to give by will. The deceased has left his lands to his sons, but he has left a legacy to his only daughter.

    7. To permit without interposition. Of this, he leaves the readerto judge.

    8. To cease to do; to desist from; to forbear. Let us return, lest my father leave caring for the asses and take thought forus. 1Sam. 9.

    9. To refer; to commit for decision.To be left to one's self, to be deserted or forsaken; to be permitted to follow one's own opinions or desires.To leave off, to desist from; to forbear; as, to leave off work at six o'clock.

    1. To leave off, to cease wearing; as, to leave off a garment.

    2. To forsake; as, to leave off an old acquaintance.To leave out, to omit; as, to leave out a word or name in writing.

    Bro. Caroll,
    I'm proud of you; you gave the dictionary renderings--all of them. You still have the same problem, however. For the word still is not "REMAIN." It is "left" and "leave." As you can see, to dogmatically insist on one of these many definitions, a nuance of English, based on nothing but your own ideas, would be a biased decision.
    Now, I already gave you the correct definition, consistent in English and Greek and with your dictionary, i.e., abandon or forsake. God did not forsake or abandon Christ's soul in or to hell. The second consideration is that hell in the O.T. is where everyone, saved or unsaved, went upon death (that has changed in the N.T.). Which hell or which part is the question? The fiery hell or the non-fiery hell. The third consideration is that the word "hell" has no connotation of fire by itself; the context determines that. The fourth consideration is that the word "hell" has its roots in "HOLE", which the Bible renders "PIT." The fifth consideration is that the Greeks will tell you that its etymology is from two words "not seen" or the "unseen" world. The sixth consideration is the Psalmist, who first cited the verse that is repeated in the N.T. Was this Psalmist IN HELL or going to be IN HELL and then taken back out of HELL? The seventh consideration is that some one does not have to be in a certain situation in order to not be abandoned or forsaken in or to that same situation. Jesus did not go in or to hell fire. Jesus did go to the heart of the earth for three days and three nights in and to paradise.-- Herb Evans
     
    #37 Herb Evans, Dec 11, 2006
  18. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    Seems to me that the pains of death happened at death. It does not say the pains "AFTER" death. I guess the eternal pain of an eternal being having been separated from the Father at His death does not enter into this? You did not address the Psalm in regard to the pains of hell. -- Herb Evans
     
    #38 Herb Evans, Dec 11, 2006
  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    The Holy Spirit told me. For there are no pains in their death; And their body is fat. Ps. 73:4 (NASB)

    Obviously not.

    The Holy Spirit is usually a reliable witness.

    Because He feared, but He did not fear what men can do to the body. Neither should we. He feared, as He told us to fear, Him who could destroy both the body and soul in hell. Matt. 10:28

    Yes, as I mentioned in a previous post.

    I think we're told plainly that the sting of death is sin.

    I'm not concerned with bugs.

    What is the Second Death?
     
    #39 Aaron, Dec 11, 2006
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    The concept of time is a source of confusion for a lot of people. Without going into a lot of detail about it, let's just say that time only exists in this life. It's impossible to imagine, but this I know, life in heaven or death in hell is not a 3-D, moment-by-moment experience. You err in thinking that what we experience as time in this temporal existence is anything like the experiences in the world of spirits. That mistake also accounts for a lot of the wild speculations and artificial divisions between hades and gehenna, heaven and Abraham's bosom, and the like.

    Christ did not die as a righteous man. He died as a cursed sinner. He therefore suffered the pains of death so that I won't have to. Now many saints have suffered painful and agonizing physical deaths. The is no way to say that the pains tasted for me were the physical ones, but the spiritual ones. O, Death! Where is thy sting?


    You need to learn more about what the Scriptures teach of death.
     
    #40 Aaron, Dec 11, 2006
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