Did the Son of God Die?

[th1bill]

Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

So then explain how God can be called our Savior if He did not pay the price for sin and that price is death.

The truth has been explained to you over and over but you insist on hanging your straw man. Are you being foolish, yes, but none seem to be able to pry the lid off that cannister you call a head to let fresh air in there.

 

[th1bill]

1 Corinthians 2 :
9 However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”[Isaiah 64:4]—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—

Jesus have never been separated from the Father just imagine the feeling of the Father turning His back on Him even if it was just for a second when He did everything the Father sent Him to do and have not sinned He went through that for me to make it personal.

To imagine something else you died before the cross and someone came to where you are and said He is God and if you believe in Him you would be saved, a person who went where you are, and said He will rise on the third day would you believe Him? You didn't and on the third day you seen Him no more, what would you be thinking? This is hypothetical I don't know what happen apart from the scripture.

AMEN and I'll say it once more, AMEN!!!!!

 

[percho]

All those words to run in a circle saying naught of concern about the topic? It is a simple truth, Jesus was a human child that by decision of his creator was the container of the Son of God, spirit being. I'll say it once more, this is a good deal like what is true of us, the creations of the Son of God, our bodies will be terminated or they will expire from over usage but we will not die and neither did the Son of God!

The proof texts (and I hate using them but) are given in the OP and others have given more during this strings life, so far. The truth need not, even, be understood! All that is required by our God is faith in what He has had recorded for us.

YLT Gen 2:6,7 And Jehovah God layeth a charge on the man, saying, `Of every tree of the garden eating thou dost eat; and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

YLT Gen 3:4 And the serpent saith unto the woman, `Dying, ye do not die,

Would you care to go on record as to which of the two above was lying?

 

[convicted1]

Brother Bill,

Are you stating that Jesus the Man(His fleshly body) died, and that His Spirit never? This is how I see it. Jesus had to come in the flesh to die for us. In His Spiritual body, they could not have nailed Him to the cross. His flesh was in the likeness of sinful flesh, yet w/o sin. IOW, they could not nail God the Spirit to the cross. Is this what you are conveying? If so, I am in agreement with you.

 

[freeatlast]

No sir, that is not true! Jesus, not since the resurection but before and during the timje he hung on the cross was the package, if you will, that the Son of God (an eternal being) resided in. Jesus, the package, was murdered on the cross and fulfilled the requirement of a perfect sacrifice for my and for your sin debt but the Son of God, the second person of the Triune God has never ceased to exist. We have had the definition of died thoroughly examined in this string and the death of Jesus, the man does not end the existence of the Son of God for three days, He, the divine being, has never died.

Yes, there are scriptures that when jerked out of the context of the entire Bible can erronously be used to prove otherwise but when viewed in the context of all scripture they prove just the opposite. God, the Father, God, the Son and the Holy Spirit, spirit beings all, can not cease to exist any more than the spirit being contained in your present body can. Spirits never die and cease to exiswt!

Bill don't you understand that what you are proposing is the same false doctrine of dualism that the Gnostics taught which was the spirit and the body are separate and one cannot be touched by the other? Here is what some taught;
Jesus is identified by some Gnostics as an embodiment of the supreme being who became incarnate to bring gnōsis to the earth.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

You are proposing a form of Gnosticism just packaged in another wrapping.
You are trying to figure out the Trinity and denying what the bible says. Stop denying what the bible says about the Son dieing to satisfy your and everyone's inability to comprehend how God can be a man, die and not stop being God. Jesus the Son died on the cross, not just some prepared shell that was inconsequential to Who and What He was and is. The Word who was God became flesh! Not the Word who was God was put into flesh or a shell.
His body was not a shell. His body was as much the Son of God as the spirit and soul and the Son died. The Word of God Word BECAME flesh. What we call the second person of the Trinity gave up, put off or how ever you want to say it, His prior existence and literally became a man without ever putting and end to being God. He was not God cased in a body. He remained God and became a man. He was God/man, not God in a shell or God in a human body. He was not Spirit God in a human body. He was God/man body soul and spirit. His body was and is as much God as any part of Him and being human He had the same limitations and needs as we do. Again this was not God in a body! You cannot back that up with scripture at all. This was the Word who was with God and was God and that Word, notice what it says, became flesh, not was housed in a prepared shell or body. Bill you are denying the who Jesus was and is by claiming that He was not flesh. Bill the Word who was God became flesh not was put into flesh.
When He went to the cross it was not a shell being hung out to dry. It was the Son of God who suffered and died.

Listen to scripture
1Thess 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Bill stop with the Gnostic Dualism teaching. That passage makes it clear that our spirit, soul and body are one. Jesus the Son of God is One with God and the Son Died and rose again.

 

[freeatlast]

The truth has been explained to you over and over but you insist on hanging your straw man. Are you being foolish, yes, but none seem to be able to pry the lid off that cannister you call a head to let fresh air in there.

Bill I want to warn you about the name calling. Just debate the issue.

 

[OldRegular]

Are you saying that Jesus is not God?

The RCC uses the same stupid illogic to claim that the Virgin Mary is the Mother of Eternal God.

The human nature of the God-man Jesus Christ died on the cross. GOD CAN NOT DIE. If God died is He eternal?

You can not find one passage of Scripture that says God did or can die. If you believe He can then your understanding of God is faulty!

 

[OldRegular]

Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

So then explain how God can be called our Savior if He did not pay the price for sin and that price is death.

Do either of the verses you presented say that God died?

 

[OldRegular]

Considering that I saw (in my quick look through) some post(s) in which proclaim that Christ did not go to hell, but only appeared to the kept safe of paradise, then the question that must be raised is what was the "hell" of Acts 2?

Ac 2:25 For David spoke concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

The question must be asked; if God did not send Jesus to Hell, then where was David's prophecy to fit considering that the Apostle made it extremely clear that Jesus did not merely go to "paradise" but did actually descend into hell?

Just so there is no confusion, one will need to prove that "hell" is also "paradise" if the suggestion is viewed that this passage is not to be taken literally.

The Word Faith people [Copeland, etc.] believe that Jesus Christ went to hell to be purified. What say You? And hell is not Paradise! You have to prove they are to make that statement. [I am assuming you are indicatinng that hell in the above Scripture is a literal hell, not the grave.]

 

[OldRegular]

Psalms 90:2 tells us: Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

So are some of you saying that God interrupted His Eternal nature temporarily? How did He get it restarted if He died?

 

[agedman]

The Word Faith people [Copeland, etc.] believe that Jesus Christ went to hell to be purified. What say You? And hell is not Paradise! You have to prove they are to make that statement. [I am assuming you are indicatinng that hell in the above Scripture is a literal hell, not the grave.]

If one takes literally the prophetic words of David as explained by the apostles, the the Scriptures show that Christ did in fact go to hell - the flaming part in which the rich man is tormented.

The question would seem to be, Why?

The answer is dominion. Christ ascended with the keys of life, death and hell.

Before the cross, Satan had the ability to kill and destroy; after the cross, only Christ has that authority.

Christ did not go to hell to be purified, there is no Scripture to support that view that I have found.

The "scapegoat" was pure; taking upon itself the sin punishment from the impure. The "scapegoat" did not take upon itself the sinful nature; nor did the taking of the punishment make the "scapegoat" impure; for then the sacrifice would have been in vain.

Further, there was no person able to make or take of them self any purity; the punishment for the impurity is met for those who place trust upon the "scapegoat;" for it is clear that without belief the impurity is not cleansed.

Hell cannot contain that which is pure, only the impure. Therefore, though descending into hell, hell had no power to hold for the "scapegoat" was pure. The authority over hell, and by the resurrection the authority over death, were then secured by Christ.

Christ paid for the sin, not that all mankind is sinless, but those that believe have the penalty for their sins met by the death of Christ.

This thread is an attempt to draw folks into considering that those in hell are dead or that death means a cessation of sentient existence. That cannot happen. Not until both those in hell and hell are cast into the lake of fire is there a "second death."

All, whose physical body ceases to function, continue sentient existence.

The OP would have one consider what in fact cannot happen.

Christ did not give up (just as no person on earth) sentient existence when He died on the Cross. Mortality of the body is not mortality of the sentient existence; the dead in Christ are raised to their reward; the dead without Christ are raise to their reward. Death then is not cessation, but the birth beginnings of a dwelling for continuing existence.

 

[freeatlast]

edited by poster double post

 

[freeatlast]

Do either of the verses you presented say that God died?

Answer the question
Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

So then explain how God can be called our Savior if He did not pay the price for sin and that price is death.

 

[Yeshua1]

Did the Son of God Die?

This is an oft debated issue and it far to often causes the Christian to move away defeated and there is no good reason for this to ever happen. First of all we need to understand some things that are being left unexamined by the soft soap preachers of today. It is important to understand that God is a spirit being and except for the spirit contained in each and every human-being on this Earth there is no similarity between the bodies of man and God, the Father.

In the first chapter of the first book of the Bible, the Triune state of God is hinted at twice when it is said “let us create” and “in our image..” Now remember this as I latter discuss the death of the man, Jesus. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are spirit beings as are Satan and all Angels. The Bible is consistent in it's teaching that man is eternal, even though we have died from the beginning. So, if we are created in the image of God, what is that image?

If the image of the God Head is not found in our body, where is it then. If the bodies of men waist away and if we are created in the image of spirit beings we must have a spirit component to our make up. But back to the death of Jesus. Mary was over-come by the Holy Spirit of God. (Luke 1:35) Mary did not have physical relations with God and there is no way the scripture can be twisted this way and we, the followers of Christ, must learn to put our foot down when the Atheist begins this perverted twist of the scriptures.

We serve the one and only Omnipotent and Omniscient God and since He is without limit there is nothing He cannot do! So, yes, Father God has the power to create a body to have relations with a woman but it is yet impossible for Him to do so because it would involve God committing sin and God's very nature makes Him sinning impossible. So it is left to a miracle as being the only possibility and that is exactly where God does so well. He is the maker of miracles!

But the question is, “Did the Son of God die?” The answer is no! We must agree that the body, Jesus, died on the cross, as recorded by several sources, but the Son of God went to Paradise and release the saints of the Old Testament, He was and is still alive! (Matthew 27:52, 53) This all took place while the body of Jesus, the sacrificial payment for our sin debts, lay in the tomb.

The good and the bad news of this is that, having the image of God as part of our make up, we also will never die in the sense that we think of it today. We will either live in Glory or in the Lake of Fire forever, however long that may be.

jesus was BOTh very god and man...

He DIED a physical death upon the Cross, the bible states that its through his death that satan was disarmed and defeated...

You CANNOT divide jesus into say the man died while the God lived on...

God died upon the Cross...

Think about that...

We will NEVER realise that God Himselftook our place and stead and died in our place as the sin bearer!

 

[percho]

The Word Faith people [Copeland, etc.] believe that Jesus Christ went to hell to be purified. What say You? And hell is not Paradise! You have to prove they are to make that statement. [I am assuming you are indicatinng that hell in the above Scripture is a literal hell, not the grave.]

I will not attempt to answer for agedman but here is what the word of God says.

The soul that sins it shall die. the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors;

And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. Spirit that gives life returned to the Father, Jesus was dead.

At that very moment the soul of Jesus was dead in Hades. The corruptible body of Jesus still hung on the cross and about three hours later the corruptible body of Jesus was put in the tomb of another man.

Three days and three nights later this took place.

Acts 2:29- Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. (The soul of David dead in Hades and his body rotted away in the sepulchre) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that his soul was not left in Hades, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Two things affected by the resurrection of Jesus the Christ. The soul that had died for your and my sin was regenerated and the corruptible body it had been residing in was now incorruptible.

This was done by: This Jesus hath God (the Father see Gal. 1:1) raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. The Father (Spirit the God see John 4:23,24), did this by his Spirit (see Romans 8:11).

 

[OldRegular]

Answer the question
Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

So then explain how God can be called our Savior if He did not pay the price for sin and that price is death.

Do either of the verses you presented say that God died? You say God died. Then show Scripture to prove it!

 

[percho]

If one takes literally the prophetic words of David as explained by the apostles, the the Scriptures show that Christ did in fact go to hell - the flaming part in which the rich man is tormented.

The question would seem to be, Why?

The answer is dominion. Christ ascended with the keys of life, death and hell.

Before the cross, Satan had the ability to kill and destroy; after the cross, only Christ has that authority.

Christ did not go to hell to be purified, there is no Scripture to support that view that I have found.

The "scapegoat" was pure; taking upon itself the sin punishment from the impure. The "scapegoat" did not take upon itself the sinful nature; nor did the taking of the punishment make the "scapegoat" impure; for then the sacrifice would have been in vain.

Further, there was no person able to make or take of them self any purity; the punishment for the impurity is met for those who place trust upon the "scapegoat;" for it is clear that without belief the impurity is not cleansed.

Hell cannot contain that which is pure, only the impure. Therefore, though descending into hell, hell had no power to hold for the "scapegoat" was pure. The authority over hell, and by the resurrection the authority over death, were then secured by Christ.

Christ paid for the sin, not that all mankind is sinless, but those that believe have the penalty for their sins met by the death of Christ.

This thread is an attempt to draw folks into considering that those in hell are dead or that death means a cessation of sentient existence. That cannot happen. Not until both those in hell and hell are cast into the lake of fire is there a "second death."

All, whose physical body ceases to function, continue sentient existence.

The OP would have one consider what in fact cannot happen.

Christ did not give up (just as no person on earth) sentient existence when He died on the Cross. Mortality of the body is not mortality of the sentient existence; the dead in Christ are raised to their reward; the dead without Christ are raise to their reward. Death then is not cessation, but the birth beginnings of a dwelling for continuing existence.

I wonder what kind of emotional state Abraham is in presently after thousands of years of sentient existence watching his children's, children's, children's, children's, children's, children well you get the idea, being the degenerate, sorry good for nothing bunch so many of them became. O well I guess there were a few good ones.

1 Thess. 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (Maybe Paul should have wrote, And you should sorrow not those which are asleep by your actions either.)

 

[freeatlast]

Do either of the verses you presented say that God died? You say God died. Then show Scripture to prove it!

Answer the question
Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

So then explain how God can be called our Savior if He did not pay the price for sin and that price is death.

 

[freeatlast]

AMEN and I'll say it once more, AMEN!!!!!

Bill if the Son of God did not die then it would also have to be said that He did not suffer, correct?

 

[agedman]

I wonder what kind of emotional state Abraham is in presently after thousands of years of sentient existence watching his children's, children's, children's, children's, children's, children well you get the idea, being the degenerate, sorry good for nothing bunch so many of them became. O well I guess there were a few good ones.

1 Thess. 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (Maybe Paul should have wrote, And you should sorrow not those which are asleep by your actions either.)

You have posted a great post on the extended mercy of God that goes beyond human endurance.

Another place this occurs is in the Revelation 6:

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.​

Those who do not believe in election, foreknowledge, and predestination, have a bit of difficulty with passages such as these which show that God has direct purpose in the living and destiny of His.