Did the Son of God Die?

[12strings]

1. It seems that everyone posting on this thread believes that Jesus' body died (ceased to have life) and that at that time his spirit was separated from his body, but yet did not cease to exist. If I am right about this we are arguing about nothing.
***I have not seen anyone claiming that the son of God ceased to exist...so any argument against that position is arguing against no-one.

2. It seems the argument is simply over whether the phrase "the son of God died" applies accurately to #1.

3. If someone wants to argue that the Son of God did NOT die, then they must also argue that neither you, nor me, nor any other person has ever or can ever die, since death is the separation of the body from the spirit. Understood in this normal, biblical way, there is no problem with saying that the Son of God died.

 

[12strings]

12 Strings,
there are two working definitions of death, the end product of dying. These are best known as the First and the Second Death. The body of the Son of Man died, the Son of God, as shown in my post, was just as alive as it had been and will forever be and went into Paradise, not Heaven, (another problem area of human understanding from the lack of study) and He preached to the Old Testament Saints and released them to asend into Heaven.

I think, bill, if you asked, you would find that FAL, and every other person who affirms "The son of God died" agrees with this (bolded) statement. (At least I'm hoping he does).

 

[freeatlast]

I think, bill, if you asked, you would find that FAL, and every other person who affirms "The son of God died" agrees with this (bolded) statement. (At least I'm hoping he does).

I believe exactly what the scripture says and it does not say the body of the Son of God died. It says the Son of God died and that is what I accept.
You are suggesting the same old Gnostic dualism belief and I reject it as does the bible.
God did not prepare some body and place the Son in it. The Word became flesh, not the Word indwelt dwelt in flesh. The Son died and had to be risen from the dead. Not the body died and the Son departed until the flesh was risen from the dead so the Son could return to the body.

 

[agedman]

I believe exactly what the scripture says and it does not say the body of the Son of God died. It says the Son of God died and that is what I accept.
You are suggesting the same old Gnostic dualism belief and I reject it as does the bible.
God did not prepare some body and place the Son in it. The Word became flesh, not the Word indwelt dwelt in flesh. The Son died and had to be risen from the dead. Not the body died and the Son departed until the flesh was risen from the dead so the Son could return to the body.

Perhaps, you would explain the difference between your own death (provided the Lord continues to tarry) and the death of Christ.

When Christ died, was there some nuance in the death that is different then all who die?

 

[freeatlast]

Perhaps, you would explain the difference between your own death (provided the Lord continues to tarry) and the death of Christ.

When Christ died, was there some nuance in the death that is different then all who die?

The bible simply says that the Son died so He died. The Revelation says this;
Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
18
I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Can you guess who died and is now alive for ever more?

 

[jbh28]

I believe exactly what the scripture says and it does not say the body of the Son of God died. It says the Son of God died and that is what I accept.

You are getting worked up about nothing. That's exactly what the Bible teaches. Jesus suffered a PHYSICAL death. Every single person that has ever lived that has died has died a physical death. Their spirit did not cease to exist, but was separated from their body(death). Jesus died a physical death.

Jesus' body died (ceased to have life) and that at that time his spirit was separated from his body, but yet did not cease to exist.

Very much correct.

If someone wants to argue that the Son of God did NOT die, then they must also argue that neither you, nor me, nor any other person has ever or can ever die, since death is the separation of the body from the spirit. Understood in this normal, biblical way, there is no problem with saying that the Son of God died.

The Son of God died a physical death.

Not the body died and the Son departed until the flesh was risen from the dead so the Son could return to the body.

That's exactly what happens when humans die. Our spirit is separated from our body.

 

[agedman]

The bible simply says that the Son died so He died. The Revelation says this;
Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
18
I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Can you guess who died and is now alive for ever more?

Perhaps I didn't ask the questions with the appropriate wording.

When Lazarus died, the Scripture tells of his state of awareness after death and that awareness was also found in the rich man.

Did Jesus continue such awareness after death (while his physical body lay uncorrupted in a borrowed tomb by the direct act of God) as Lazarus and the rich man?

 

[percho]

So God was dead! Who raised Him from the dead seeing God was dead and in the grave {Some even foolishly say God went to Hell.}?

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him (Jesus the Son) from the dead; )

1 Peter 1:15-21 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, (the Father V17) that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

What do you believe the glory to be that the Father gave the resurrected Son?

Would like everyone's answer to that?

 

[percho]

Is Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ the only begotten of the Father God presently sitting on the right hand of God in heaven as High Priest after the order of Melchisedec as a resurrected man?

Did Spirit the God the Word beget in the ovum of the virgin Mary a child, a man child the Son of God the only begotten? Only begotten how? Are not the elect said to be begotten of God?

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, (The Word of God) whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Why would he need to be an heir? Because he is God's human son? Are the elect, joint heirs with him. Do they inherit what he inherits? Does he have to inherit before they can inherit, meaning is what they inherit, inherited through him, Jesus?

 

[freeatlast]

Perhaps I didn't ask the questions with the appropriate wording.

When Lazarus died, the Scripture tells of his state of awareness after death and that awareness was also found in the rich man.

Did Jesus continue such awareness after death (while his physical body lay uncorrupted in a borrowed tomb by the direct act of God) as Lazarus and the rich man?

The bible simply says that the Son died so He died. The Revelation says this;
Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
18
I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Try to learn to just believe what is written.

 

[percho]

My conclusion is the same as yours.

I agree Jesus the Son of God died.

Though He was God come in the flesh, He came into this world as a human being.

When a human being dies his/her spirit/soul separates from his/her body.
This is the scriptural definition of death.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.​

Our human bodies die but our spirits return to God and then the judgement.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.​

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:​

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.​

When Jesus the Son of God died His spirit returned to God, His body was placed in the tomb.​

Three days later His Spirit was reunited with His body and He was resurrected. This He did Himself, in fact all three members of the Trinity had a part in the resurrection of Christ.​

John 2
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.​

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.​

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.​

HankD​

The Christ, Anointed: Prophet, Priest, King.

John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

They wanted a sign from God that Jesus had the authority to do what he had been doing. That God had sent him.

The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, [then] shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

λαμβάνω AV — receive 133, take 106, have 3, catch 3, not tr 1, misc 17

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Did God the Son raise himself from the dead or did God the Father raise the Son of God from the dead?

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; my God, and your God.

Did he also ascend unto himself?

 

[OldRegular]

Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man. The Church Fathers defined this union of God and man at the Council of Chalcedon.

Following is the definition of this union as presented at a Reformed website.
http://www.reformed.org/documents/i...p://www.reformed.org/documents/chalcedon.html

The Definition of the Council of Chalcedon (451 A.D)

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.​

Note how this Creed describes Jesus Christ: following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood;

The man, Jesus Christ, consists of reasonable soul and body and of one substance with us as regards his manhood. There yet remains the Divine nature: complete in Godhead and of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead.

On the cross the body of Jesus Christ died and was placed in a tomb. The soul of the manhood of Jesus Christ returned to God who gave it. [Ecclesiastes 12:7] What happened to the Divine nature of Jesus Christ. One thing is certain; He did not die since God is eternal, immortal, invisible [1 Timothy 1:17] and cannot die.

Now consider the following truth as stated in Scripture:

Hebrews 9:22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

How often Scripture talks about the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin.

Ephesians 2:13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 10:19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 12:24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:12. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Hebrews 13:20. Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

1 Peter 1:2. Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 John 1:7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Does God have blood? No! but the human nature of Jesus Christ did and it is His death, His shed blood, that provides remission of sin.

One more time: The Divine nature of Jesus Christ, God the Son, is eternal and immortal [1 Timothy 1:17] and therefore can not die, did not die.

 

[HankD]

The Christ, Anointed: Prophet, Priest, King.

John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

They wanted a sign from God that Jesus had the authority to do what he had been doing. That God had sent him.

The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, [then] shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

λαμβάνω AV — receive 133, take 106, have 3, catch 3, not tr 1, misc 17

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Did God the Son raise himself from the dead or did God the Father raise the Son of God from the dead?

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; my God, and your God.

Did he also ascend unto himself?

He was speaking of the ascension of His physical body.

Metaphysically, in a way yes, God is capable of being in two places at the same time.

In fact, even you and I - His children here on earth are seated together with Him in heaven.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:​

All over the world wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in His name He is there.

HankD

 

[OldRegular]

When Christ died, was there some nuance in the death that is different then all who die?

Yes! Jesus Christ is fully man and fully God and God cannot die. See the above post #132!

 

[psalms109:31]

John 5:26
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.

John 19:30
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

1 Corinthians 15 :
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[Psalm 8:6] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

1 Peter 1:
8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,9for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.


Could Jesus give up His spirit the life the Father granted to Him to be a life to Himself. Did it not return back to the Father and the soul and body faced the death we experience and on the third day the Spirit returned to raise Him up? In which it can happen only during three days to fulfill what is prophesied for Jesus to die?

Why couldn't this not happen?

To be saved is to be raised spirit, soul, and Spiritual body without all three we are not saved the goal of our faith is the salvation of our soul right?

The soul and spirit can be separated divided in which what does it do to us as a whole person?

Hebrews 4:

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.


John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

Could God as spirit really die or be given up?

 

[convicted1]

Jesus, the Son of man(fleshly body) died, and was buried. Jesus, Son of God(Spirit), never died. Jesus, Son of God(Spirit), entered into that garden tomb, and reentered His fleshly body(Son of man), and arose just as the scriptures stated He would. God the Son never died.

 

[agedman]

Yes! Jesus Christ is fully man and fully God and God cannot die. See the above post #132!

The question was an attempt to draw some conclusion from FAL that he seemed to either avoid or that I was inadequate in putting into words.

However, perhaps it should be considered in this thread that the believer does not die because of the completed work on the cross.

Paul used the term "sleep" instead of died. (for example 1 Corinthians 15:6)

We refer to death and dying, but does the believer really ever die; are believers not transformed having become "absent from the body?"

Perhaps, because Christ raised as the "first fruits," the believer is like Him in the practical application of death, too, that because Christ died, we believers never experience death.

That is, we pass from this living into that of the heavenly, much like one awaking from sleep.

I wonder if there is coffee in heaven?


Before anyone claims that this aged man contends for "soul sleep" that IS NOT the view of this post!!!

 

[freeatlast]

The Son of God died.

The bible simply says that the Son died so He died. The Revelation says this;
Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
18
I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Scripture says:
"I am Alpha and Omega"

Then it says:
"I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore"

He is speaking and at this time does not have human flesh and He says that He had been dead, not His flesh was once dead. He says He was dead once so He was dead. You cannot separate the flesh from the person. That is Gnostic dualism.

 

[12strings]

I believe exactly what the scripture says and it does not say the body of the Son of God died. It says the Son of God died and that is what I accept.
You are suggesting the same old Gnostic dualism belief and I reject it as does the bible.
God did not prepare some body and place the Son in it. The Word became flesh, not the Word indwelt dwelt in flesh. The Son died and had to be risen from the dead. Not the body died and the Son departed until the flesh was risen from the dead so the Son could return to the body.

I am not suggesting any gnostic belief. Death in the bible does not mean ceased to exist. The Son of God died. But any plain reading of scripture as a whole tells us that what that means, is His spirit was separated from his body, which ceased having life in it. That is what death always means. I did not say Jesus ceased being fully God and fully Man at that time. I simply said his immaterial part separated from his material part; and that his immaterial part did not simply cease to exist for 3 days.

 

[12strings]

The Son of God died.

The bible simply says that the Son died so He died. The Revelation says this;
Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
18
I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Scripture says:
"I am Alpha and Omega"

Then it says:
"I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore"

He is speaking and at this time does not have human flesh and He says that He had been dead, not His flesh was once dead. He says He was dead once so He was dead. You cannot separate the flesh from the person. That is Gnostic dualism.

You are forgetting that after his resurection, he DID HAVE HUMAN FLESH! and that he ascended into heaven as the resurected Christ, spirit & body.

Please answer once and for all: What was the state of God the Son's existence for the 3 days Jesus' body was in the tomb?