Jesus was delievered over by the predetermined plan of ... wait for it... God!!!!!!!
Who took His life? Satan? Nope. Wicked people? Nope. Christ laid down His life and took it up again.
Full Stop
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Did those seeking to kill Jesus, doing the desires of the Devil, put Jesus to death by godless men?
- Thread starter JonC
- Start date
Jesus was delievered over by the predetermined plan of ... wait for it... God!!!!!!!
Who took His life? Satan? Nope. Wicked people? Nope. Christ laid down His life and took it up again.
Full Stop
You are ignoring scripture. Scripture says nobody took His life. You say He laid it down then allowed wicked people to kill Him. Utter nonsense.
Once again:
"The Entity that spake these words:
17 Therefore doth the Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.
18 No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father. Jn 10
...is the very same Entity that spake these words:
Acts 2:
…. they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance…Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth… ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay…God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified. Acts 2:4,22,23,36
Acts 4:
…Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders… be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified… Acts 4:8,10
Acts 6 & 7:
…there arose certain of them that were of the synagogue called the synagogue of the Libertines, and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to withstand the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake….Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers; Acts 6:9,10; Acts 7:51,52"
The word translated "slay" is refers to the action the humans took which would have killed Jesus if Jesus was not God incarnate.
The fact they "crucified" Him is not in dispute.
Only when Jesus gave up His Spirit, did He die, as He was laying down His life.
Pure speculation with no biblical support. They were acting in accordance with God's plan, and the degree of mercy God bestowed upon them is totally unknown.
Once again you copy and paste non-germane or not in dispute verbiage.
Please address the biblical position, no one took His life.
For the umpteenth time, again, no one has denied that. The fact is that all those devils that crucified Christ were held accountable for His betrayal and murder.
How were they held accountable. Do you know? Of course not.
You are wasting my time claiming as true your speculation.
Please address the biblical position, no one took His life.
Acts 2:23 (KJV): Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (emphasis mine)
Am I misreading this verse?
Also, I am not denying that Christ laid down His life, as that's what scripture says. The "crucified and slain" above applies only to the physical deeds that preceded that laying down. While the eternal destiny of those men is, as you note, unknown, it's hard to believe any of them believed on Christ as Messiah at the time leading up to the crucifixion.
The scripture makes no bones that there was no forgiveness for the devils that crucified Christ:
14 For ye, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judaea in Christ Jesus: for ye also suffered the same things of your own countrymen, even as they did of the Jews;
15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove out us, and pleased not God, and are contrary to all men;
16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved; to fill up their sins always: but the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. 1 Thess 2
33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?
34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Mt 23
22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished Lu 21
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Mt 21
70 Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Jn 6
22 For the Son of man indeed goeth, as it hath been determined: but woe unto that man through whom he is betrayed! Lu 22
This IS Jesus speaking here:
Acts 2:
…. they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance…Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth… ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay…God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified. Acts 2:4,22,23,36
Acts 4:
…Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders… be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified… Acts 4:8,10
Acts 6 & 7:
…there arose certain of them that were of the synagogue called the synagogue of the Libertines, and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to withstand the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake….Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers; Acts 6:9,10; Acts 7:51,52"
The word translated "slay"refers to the action the humans took which would have killed Jesus if Jesus was not God incarnate.
The fact they "crucified" Him is not in dispute.
Only when Jesus gave up His Spirit, did He die, as He was laying down His life. Again, and this is so simple I cannot fathom why anyone would deny it, No one took His life.
Did I say they were saved? Nope. God might justly punish them in Hades and Gehenna for their sins and yet not punish them for those few sinful deeds they did in accordance with God's plan. To claim knowledge one way or the other is adding to scripture.
Where are the quote marks? The level of falsehoods flowing onto this thread is mind-boggling.
How were they murderers if they did not take the life of Jesus? They certainly took murderous actions upon Jesus. Is that the idea?
We are agreed! No one took His life, not Satan, and not wicked people.
Jesus did not commit suicide. Christian martyrs laid down their lives and it dishonors every Christian's commitment to Christ to disparage it is suicide.
2) Jesus did lay down His life, and no one, repeat no one, not Satan, not wicked people, took His life.
3) It is not in dispute that wicked people under Satan's influence, took actions that would have killed an ordinary human. But to say Jesus did not lay down his physical life when He alone "gave up His Spirit" is unbiblical nonsense
2) Jesus did lay down His life, and no one, repeat no one, not Satan, not wicked people, took His life.
3) It is not in dispute that wicked people under Satan's influence, took actions that would have killed an ordinary human. But to say Jesus did not lay down his physical life when He alone "gave up His Spirit" is unbiblical nonsense
Who took Christ's life, God, Satan, or wicked people. My view is God.
He was delivered over by the predetermined plan of God.
Did He die due to the wounds and physical failure of His body? Nope.
He laid down His life with the ability to pick it up again. To call this suicide is twaddle.
He sacrificed His life as a ransom for all.
What does scripture say? Christ gave up His Spirit and died
He was delivered over by the predetermined plan of God.
Did He die due to the wounds and physical failure of His body? Nope.
He laid down His life with the ability to pick it up again. To call this suicide is twaddle.
He sacrificed His life as a ransom for all.
What does scripture say? Christ gave up His Spirit and died
]Jesus did not commit suicide. Christian martyrs laid down their lives and it dishonors every Christian's commitment to Christ to disparage it is suicide.
2) Jesus did lay down His life, and no one, repeat no one, not Satan, not wicked people, took His life.
3) It is not in dispute that wicked people under Satan's influence, took actions that would have killed an ordinary human. But to say Jesus did not lay down his physical life when He alone "gave up His Spirit" is unbiblical nonsense
2) Jesus did lay down His life, and no one, repeat no one, not Satan, not wicked people, took His life.
3) It is not in dispute that wicked people under Satan's influence, took actions that would have killed an ordinary human. But to say Jesus did not lay down his physical life when He alone "gave up His Spirit" is unbiblical nonsense
No. I am acknowledging ALL of Scripture.
Jesus life was NOT taken from Him. He lay down His life freely. He has authority over His life. He lay down His life. He was nailed to a cross and put to death by men He said were doing the work of the Devil.
You believe some Scripture but you deny what does not suit your belief. You, rather than God, are your own authority when it comes to doctrine. The reason is you read the Bible, accept of God's Word what you like and throw out what you do not.
All of Scripture is true.
Jesus lay down His own life. He has authority over His own life. His life was not taken from Him. AND men doing the deeds of Satan nailed Him to a cross by godless men and put Him to death.
I did not write those things, God did. Your argument is with Him, not me.
You cannot understand how those passages do not contradict one another, but that is your problem. It is a deficiency in you, not God.
Those men nailed Jesus to a cross and put Him to death. How do we know this? Because God said so.