Did we miss our turn somewhere?

[1689Dave]

The "tree" is God's true Church. He had chosen Judah to provide the rulers over all Israel, & narrowed it down to David's descendants, first thru Solomon. David was descended from Judah, not Benjamin or Levi, & Jesus' human ancestry was thru David, as God promised David. And Jesus had been sent TO THE JEWS FIRST, then to the rest of Israel & the world.

The Jews were God's first parts of His "tree", but by their rejection of Jesus, they'd cut themselves off that tree. But they can be readily grafted back onto that tree by believing in Jesus as Messiah & Savior for their sins.

Now, the Jews' ancient genealogies may be lost, but NOT TO GOD, & their HISTORY proves they ARE the Jews.

Jesus is the Vine. We are the branches.

 

[1689Dave]

The "tree" is God's true Church. He had chosen Judah to provide the rulers over all Israel, & narrowed it down to David's descendants, first thru Solomon. David was descended from Judah, not Benjamin or Levi, & Jesus' human ancestry was thru David, as God promised David. And Jesus had been sent TO THE JEWS FIRST, then to the rest of Israel & the world.

The Jews were God's first parts of His "tree", but by their rejection of Jesus, they'd cut themselves off that tree. But they can be readily grafted back onto that tree by believing in Jesus as Messiah & Savior for their sins.

Now, the Jews' ancient genealogies may be lost, but NOT TO GOD, & their HISTORY proves they ARE the Jews.

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.” John 15:1–2 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

VERY true. For a Baptist, 1689 Dave sure has some weird beliefs !

When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. That was the last of unbelieving physical Israel. That generation died off especially in 70 AD. Today's Jews are broken off unbelievers who exist only because of their hatred for Christ and rejection of him as the Messiah. The Apostles, the thousands at Pentecost and on are true Israel who accepted hrist.

 

[unprofitable]

First of all, God stopped using Israel for the perpetuating of the gospel long before that. Once he church became empowered (pentecost) Israel was set aside. Some of the promises to national Israel are still going to be fulfilled.

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

First of all, God stopped using Israel for the perpetuating of the gospel long before that. Once he church became empowered (pentecost) Israel was set aside. Some of the promises to national Israel are still going to be fulfilled.

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

I agree in that Israel had become as defiled as the nations in their lack of the knowledge of the Father (Jn 8:55) but still remained a covenant nation until 70ad when the temple was brought to the ground. Covenant national Israel was given 40 years to repent but fell in the wilderness of their unbelief as did the rebels during the time of Moses.(Eze 20:38) The covenant you spoke of belongs to the true body of Christ NOW.

Acts 15:13-17 clearly shows that those covenants belong to the kingdom of God that is everlasting. (Mt 16:18).

James says, vs 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets, as it is written.

vs 16 After this will I return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down, and I will build again the ruins thereof (bringing the remnant out from the ruins of those of covenant Israel still under law of sin and death) and I will set it up (Mt16:18) (UPON THIS ROCK)

vs17: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord (Mt 6:33) and all the nations, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

This is clearly accomplished by the work of Christ during his ministry.

Since the new covenant is the original teachings of the Father spoken by the Son by the will of the Father, what need is there of another covenant? Christ says in Jn 15:15,"...ALL things I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you." The teaching of Christ are finished for his church people. The new covenant belongs to the church.

The new covenant belongs to the church. The blood of Christ was shed for the church in bringing about and validating the new covenant.

If those of so-called Israel will be restored, then it will be through the new covenant given to the true body of Christ, the church.
There is no redemption outside the body of Christ.

 

[Revmitchell]

but still remained a covenant nation until 70ad when the temple was brought to the ground.

Uh nope

 

[MB]

No offence, but that aint Israel. They are the broken off unbelievers from Israel who hate Christ more than you can shake a stick at. Only by faith will any be reattached to Israel.

One thing for sure you are not Israel and never will be. You can take that to your replacement theology believers and tell them the truth. There will be One hundred and 44000 Jews who will preach the gospel during the tribulation. You have no idea how many will be grafted back in to the root. Remember the root supports you and not the other way around. You should never boast against the natural branches.
MB

 

[Alan Gross]

No, they DIDN'T.

The antichrist did NOT come then, and only he can commit the AOD, as Scripture says. So, you can drop that silliness right now.

You can turn the 'silliness' around where it will do some good.

You're disappointing yourself, because you know you don't know.

Learn something.

 

[robycop3]

Jesus is the Vine. We are the branches.

And the original branches were all Jews.

 

[1689Dave]

And the original branches were all Jews.

But God removed the physical unbelievers, leaving only believing Israel.

 

[robycop3]

When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. That was the last of unbelieving physical Israel. That generation died off especially in 70 AD. Today's Jews are broken off unbelievers who exist only because of their hatred for Christ and rejection of him as the Messiah. The Apostles, the thousands at Pentecost and on are true Israel who accepted hrist.

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

PLEASE SHOW US A VERSE WHERE jESUS OR ANYONE ELSE SAID hE ABOLISHED CIRCUMCISION.

The Jews of today are the descendants of the Jews of the 1st century. And the rest of Israel still exists, ACCORDING TO GOD. We just don't know who they are right now.

 

[robycop3]

One thing for sure you are not Israel and never will be. You can take that to your replacement theology believers and tell them the truth. There will be One hundred and 44000 Jews who will preach the gospel during the tribulation. You have no idea how many will be grafted back in to the root. Remember the root supports you and not the other way around. You should never boast against the natural branches.
MB

Correct, except only 36 K of the 144K will be Jews (The tribes of Judah, Benjamin, & Levi) The rest will be Israelis from the other tribes.

 

[robycop3]

But God removed the physical unbelievers, leaving only believing Israel.

No, He didn't. Not yet. Please show us some Scripture saying He has already done that.

 

[robycop3]

You can turn the 'silliness' around where it will do some good.

You're disappointing yourself, because you know you don't know.

Learn something.

Daniel 11:31(Speaking of the king of the north)Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 12:11 11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Mark 13:14[color]
“But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.[/color]

The Jews of that day didn't see it. Nothing was set up in the temple before it was destroyed. This is a future event, as common sense and history prove. there's been a lot more than 1290 days (Or for that matter, YEARS) since the daily sacrifice was ended at that temple by its destruction. THAT temple was not a fortress. And neither Daniel nor Jesus said the temple would be destroyed when the AOD was to be set up. YOU should learn something !

 

[1689Dave]

No, He didn't. Not yet. Please show us some Scripture saying He has already done that.

“And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:” Romans 11:17–20 (KJV 1900)


“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” Romans 11:23 (KJV 1900)

 

[robycop3]

“And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:” Romans 11:17–20 (KJV 1900)


“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” Romans 11:23 (KJV 1900)

That does NOT show where God removes all unbelievers from Israel. That hasn't happened yet.

 

[1689Dave]

That does NOT show where God removes all unbelievers from Israel. That hasn't happened yet.

It happened when Christ abolished circumcision. That is what made physical unbelievers members of Israel.

 

[robycop3]

It happened when Christ abolished circumcision. That is what made physical unbelievers members of Israel.

Please show us SCRIPTURE where jesus abolished circumcision. (Tho not a Jew, I was circumcised for "sanitary" reasons, as were most American males my age.)

 

[1689Dave]

Please show us SCRIPTURE where jesus abolished circumcision. (Tho not a Jew, I was circumcised for "sanitary" reasons, as were most American males my age.)

Circumcision was a Jewish rite that made one a Jew. Christ abolished it on the cross leaving only believers as Israel. They tried to kill Paul several times for teaching against it as no longer necessary. All believers are circumcised in heart just as Abraham was before God gave him the order to circumcise all of his slaves making them his Covenant seed.

 

[robycop3]

Circumcision was a Jewish rite that made one a Jew. Christ abolished it on the cross leaving only believers as Israel. They tried to kill Paul several times for teaching against it as no longer necessary. All believers are circumcised in heart just as Abraham was before God gave him the order to circumcise all of his slaves making them his Covenant seed.

Lotsa gab - no SCRIPTURE !

I was circumcised - Did that make me a Jew?

A Jewish boy circumcised on his 8th day after birth was still a Jew on the previous 7 days. So you can forget that "circumcision makes one a Jew" silliness right now. (It leaves out GIRLS!) You really need to sit down & ask the HOLY SPIRIT to straighten out your twisted theology !

 

[1689Dave]

Lotsa gab - no SCRIPTURE !

I was circumcised - Did that make me a Jew?

A Jewish boy circumcised on his 8th day after birth was still a Jew on the previous 7 days. So you can forget that "circumcision makes one a Jew" silliness right now. (It leaves out GIRLS!) You really need to sit down & ask the HOLY SPIRIT to straighten out your twisted theology !

This is not correct. Any not circumcised were cut off = remained gentiles.


“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)

cut off =

“I myself will set my face against that man and cut him off from the midst of his people, because he has given some of his children to Molech and thereby defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name.” (Leviticus 20:3)


“If, however, the people of the land shut their eyes to that man when he gives some of his children to Molech so that they do not put him to death, I myself will set my face against that man and his clan. I will cut off from the midst of their people both him and all who follow after him in spiritual prostitution, to commit prostitution by worshiping Molech.” (Leviticus 20:4–5)