Dispensationalists: Why is This Version of Israel THE One of Prophecy?

[thomas15]

Yes, but the implication is that dispensationalists, by default, love Jews whereas non-dispensationalists "might hate" them. I am a former dispensationalist. Believe me, I am familiar with dispensationalist arguments; I used to use them myself. What led me away from dispensationalism was studying the Scriptures myself and examining them against hyperdispensationalist claims. Seeing the holes in the theory and understanding the history of the movement as a modern invention certainly helped.

It can get tiring trying to argue my view with Scripture, and being considered even possibly "anti-Semitic" because I propose that the solution is the gospel and that I dare to challenge the modern sacred cow of premillennial dispensationalism.

You see, here it is again. Rejecting dispensationalism and merely arguing against it with what the apostles wrote will doom someone to eternal accusations of anti-Semitism. Simply believing that "Jew and Gentile are equal" as Paul emphasizes several times means that you are anti-Jew. If you do not believe that anyone has a specially favored status from God (at least now, anyway) based entirely on genetics, you are anti...

Let me say this as clearly and plainly as possible. Will the poster named AresMan please grow up. Any questions?

 

[OldRegular]

Let me say this as clearly and plainly as possible. Will the poster named AresMan please grow up. Any questions?

Who needs to grow up?

I'll return the favor with this bit of free information, right now the lines at space mountain are short. If you hurry you can get one in before lunch with mickey.

Not what I said if you read my post and you know it but since you are so fascinated with your own thinking and that of your friends at disney world go ahead and think whatever you want.

On edit: And actually, if you read what AresMan wrote, he wasn't saying that Jesus is the answer to man's problems, he was actually making a snide comment about dispies and futurists (ie: observing to fleshly ordinances) and the middle east situation. We all i'm sure agree that Jesus is the answer if we disagree on everything else.

So I stand by my stupid comment.

This is, in a word, stupid. Try spreading the gospel in Iran, see how far you get.

The governments "over there" want to see an end of everything non-Islamic (including Christians and disney corp). Could you really be that clue-less as to the reality of a nuclear Iran? You might think that life will be good and that the poor palestianians will be so much better off with the only true ally of the US in the region gone and half the worlds energy supply in the hands of those who wish the same of of us as their designs on Israel. Israel, by the way, has freedom of religion, you can leagally proclaim Christ in Tel-Aviv.

It only takes half a brain to see what will happen when Iran gets WMDs. You might hate the Israellies but many people outside of dispensationalism in the US will breath a huge sigh of relief when the Jewish state lights up the streets of Tehran simply because the other option is too horrable to imagine. Many people with no religious agenda see the problem clearly but you don't. Why?

I asked you to explain your outburst, not post links.

FYI, posting links written by friends of disney characters is a time waster if directed towards me because I don't read them.

Truly pathetic. But there is still time to get your disney world tickets for that vacation of a lifetime!

Question? Whis is this enlightened fellow named OR?

Getting back to your highly informative debate with Bronconagurski (who clearly doesn't know with whom he is dealing with)...




So I, Thomas15 ask the question:

How so?

This is the quote that brought on the above outburst:



And now what follows, no less than a certain disney character will educate us on just how sinful men in any historical timeframe "help" Jehovah with the work of our Savior on the cross and the grace of our God. We need to start thanking the church for our salvation! Let us prepair our minds and hearts to receive a refutation of sola gratia. Let us receive helpful instruction correcting Jesus who in error said something about making descendents of Abraham out of rocks if that be the will of God.

The above is a sample of thomas15"s posts! Now there is a mature Christian!

 

[thomas15]

Who needs to grow up?

The above is a sample of thomas15"s posts! Now there is a mature Christian!

If you or anyone else have any comments or concerns, feel free to ask!

 

[Greektim]

If you or anyone else have any comments or concerns, feel free to ask!

My concern is what this thread has become by all involved. Ready for a shutdown on this one.

 

[thomas15]

My concern is what this thread has become by all involved. Ready for a shutdown on this one.

Thank you for your concern!

 

[Yeshua1]

Good read, good articulations:

The Antichrist Hoax by Joel McDurmon

Excerpt:

"You can pretty much rest assured that prophecy teachers (pastor, preacher, “prophet,” pundit, televangelist, and the like) have little idea what they’re talking about when they use the phrase “the Antichrist.” It’s a dead giveaway that any such person has sold out dogmatically, uncritically, and close-mindedly to a particular system of end-times theology rather than a purely biblical assessment of the issue.

Why such a strong conclusion over the mere phrase “the Antichrist”?

Because no such character appears in Scripture....."

Man of Sin, the Beast, and John said that the spirit of such is loosed in the world even at his time, but he also looked to a coming AntiChrist!

 

[Yeshua1]

The above makes a very cogent point! It is the sad truth on this Board that if anyone rejects dispensationalism they are by nature: anti Jewish, don't believe the Bible, and make a liar out of God.

I believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, I could not make a liar out of God, and my Savior was a Jew!

NONE here who hold to Dispy theology of some form has said that though!

My point is that both Dispy and non agree that right now, in this present age, jews MUST receive yeshua as messiah, same as gentiles...

We just hold that God did NOT cast away the jews forever, did not put all OT promises into the Church!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, but the implication is that dispensationalists, by default, love Jews whereas non-dispensationalists "might hate" them. I am a former dispensationalist. Believe me, I am familiar with dispensationalist arguments; I used to use them myself. What led me away from dispensationalism was studying the Scriptures myself and examining them against hyperdispensationalist claims. Seeing the holes in the theory and understanding the history of the movement as a modern invention certainly helped.

It can get tiring trying to argue my view with Scripture, and being considered even possibly "anti-Semitic" because I propose that the solution is the gospel and that I dare to challenge the modern sacred cow of premillennial dispensationalism.

You see, here it is again. Rejecting dispensationalism and merely arguing against it with what the apostles wrote will doom someone to eternal accusations of anti-Semitism. Simply believing that "Jew and Gentile are equal" as Paul emphasizes several times means that you are anti-Jew. If you do not believe that anyone has a specially favored status from God (at least now, anyway) based entirely on genetics, you are anti...

Again, the jews have NO special deal with God right now going on, other than they MUSYT receive yeshua as the messiah in order to get saved!

now when end times formally hit, God will deal with national isreal, to prepare them for the coming again of yeshua to be their King, but NOT right now!

 

[OldRegular]

Again, the jews have NO special deal with God right now going on, other than they MUSYT receive yeshua as the messiah in order to get saved!

now when end times formally hit, God will deal with national isreal, to prepare them for the coming again of yeshua to be their King, but NOT right now!

Not right now, Not ever! With the Incarnation and Crucifixion God's purpose for Israel was finished!

 

[Bronconagurski]

Not right now, Not ever! With the Incarnation and Crucifixion God's purpose for Israel was finished!

The prayerful study of Ephesians 3:4-5; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:26 and Romans 16:26 reveals that a N.T. mystery is that which had been hidden, kept secret, and not made known to men in previous ages, but which has now been made manifest and revealed and made known to God’s saints in this present age by the N.T. apostles and prophets. That is indisputable, though you try to beat the air with your assertions. The scriptures make you out as untruthful, sir.

 

[Iconoclast]

now when end times formally hit, God will deal with national isreal, to prepare them for the coming again of yeshua to be their King, but NOT right now!

Jesus Is King Right now. We are in the Last days.Old Regular has pointed this out.

 

[Iconoclast]

The prayerful study of Ephesians 3:4-5; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:26 and Romans 16:26 reveals that a N.T. mystery is that which had been hidden, kept secret, and not made known to men in previous ages, but which has now been made manifest and revealed and made known to God’s saints in this present age by the N.T. apostles and prophets. That is indisputable, though you try to beat the air with your assertions. The scriptures make you out as untruthful, sir.

Welcome to the Bb....

These are good verses. The mystery is that Gentiles come in on equal footing with the remnant of saved Israelites.:wavey:

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Ok, I have a completely unrelated question. Why am I seeing a banner of busty women on this page? I can only imagine what they are trying to sell. Is there a way to filter out the ads we prefer not to have on our screens?

 

[Iconoclast]

Ok, I have a completely unrelated question. Why am I seeing a banner of busty women on this page? I can only imagine what they are trying to sell. Is there a way to filter out the ads we prefer not to have on our screens?

Yes....then they said they were not interested in young men, but us:laugh:
I noticed they did not seem to be arrayed in modest apparel.....but resembled the strange woman Solomon warned about:type:
Maybe they desire bible study and just do not know how to sign in???:laugh:

 

[Bronconagurski]

Welcome to the Bb....

These are good verses. The mystery is that Gentiles come in on equal footing with the remnant of saved Israelites.:wavey:

Before I entertain that idea, I must know who you are calling the remnant of saved Israelites. Are they from the day of Pentecost on? And what about the Israelites in the O.T.? Does the church include those people, as well as Gentiles in the O.T.? And if the church was revealed in the O.T., why didn't the Gentiles have equal footing then?

Oh, and thanks for the welcome.

 

[Bronconagurski]

If Reformed theology is correct about grace and the church, one has to wonder why more Israelites, and I mean overwhelmingly, were saved in the O.T., and more Gentiles are being saved now? Of course, if you are a hyper-Calvinist, what difference does it make?

I have always thought it was very convenient to spiritualize scripture you don't understand or believe, but say it is literal when it says what you want it to say. When the bible doesn't use language that indicates spiritualization is called for, then it should not be done.

It seems to me that progressive dispensationalists have moved toward reformed theology in order to get along, while reformed theology has not compromised one bit. Then, for P.D's, it's just a hop, skip and jump to amil. Then another short step to being fully reformed. Congrats, reformed, you have stated your case well. Only Paul refutes it in several places already named. You have to use the whole council of God and take if literal for what it says.

 

[webdog]

If Reformed theology is correct about grace and the church, one has to wonder why more Israelites, and I mean overwhelmingly, were saved in the O.T., and more Gentiles are being saved now? Of course, if you are a hyper-Calvinist, what difference does it make?

I have always thought it was very convenient to spiritualize scripture you don't understand or believe, but say it is literal when it says what you want it to say. When the bible doesn't use language that indicates spiritualization is called for, then it should not be done.

It seems to me that progressive dispensationalists have moved toward reformed theology in order to get along, while reformed theology has not compromised one bit. Then, for P.D's, it's just a hop, skip and jump to amil. Then another short step to being fully reformed. Congrats, reformed, you have stated your case well. Only Paul refutes it in several places already named. You have to use the whole council of God and take if literal for what it says.

We have a winner!

 

[Winman]

Ok, I have a completely unrelated question. Why am I seeing a banner of busty women on this page? I can only imagine what they are trying to sell. Is there a way to filter out the ads we prefer not to have on our screens?

You could use Mozilla Firefox, they have a feature that filters out all ads.

 

[webdog]

You could use Mozilla Firefox, they have a feature that filters out all ads.

...and Google Chrome

 

[Iconoclast]

Before I entertain that idea, I must know who you are calling the remnant of saved Israelites. Are they from the day of Pentecost on? And what about the Israelites in the O.T.? Does the church include those people, as well as Gentiles in the O.T.? And if the church was revealed in the O.T., why didn't the Gentiles have equal footing then?

Oh, and thanks for the welcome.

B....

9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

paul quotes isa 17 times from romans 9-15...this verse is one quoted
[QUOTE24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
][/QUOTE]

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

All in Romans 9:thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:

and romans 115 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


paul sums it up;
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.