thomas15
Well-Known Member
Explain this outburst.
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Dispensationalists: Why is This Version of Israel THE One of Prophecy?
- Thread starter InTheLight
- Start date
Explain this outburst.
Good read, good articulations:
The Antichrist Hoax by Joel McDurmon
Excerpt:
"You can pretty much rest assured that prophecy teachers (pastor, preacher, “prophet,” pundit, televangelist, and the like) have little idea what they’re talking about when they use the phrase “the Antichrist.” It’s a dead giveaway that any such person has sold out dogmatically, uncritically, and close-mindedly to a particular system of end-times theology rather than a purely biblical assessment of the issue.
Why such a strong conclusion over the mere phrase “the Antichrist”?
Because no such character appears in Scripture....."
The Antichrist Hoax by Joel McDurmon
Excerpt:
"You can pretty much rest assured that prophecy teachers (pastor, preacher, “prophet,” pundit, televangelist, and the like) have little idea what they’re talking about when they use the phrase “the Antichrist.” It’s a dead giveaway that any such person has sold out dogmatically, uncritically, and close-mindedly to a particular system of end-times theology rather than a purely biblical assessment of the issue.
Why such a strong conclusion over the mere phrase “the Antichrist”?
Because no such character appears in Scripture....."
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thomas15
Well-Known Member
I asked you to explain your outburst, not post links.
FYI, posting links written by friends of disney characters is a time waster if directed towards me because I don't read them.
In other words, the solution to all the fighting from both sides over a piece of real estate to observe fleshly ordinances is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
thomas15
Well-Known Member
This is, in a word, stupid. Try spreading the gospel in Iran, see how far you get.
The governments "over there" want to see an end of everything non-Islamic (including Christians and disney corp). Could you really be that clue-less as to the reality of a nuclear Iran? You might think that life will be good and that the poor palestianians will be so much better off with the only true ally of the US in the region gone and half the worlds energy supply in the hands of those who wish the same of of us as their designs on Israel. Israel, by the way, has freedom of religion, you can leagally proclaim Christ in Tel-Aviv.
It only takes half a brain to see what will happen when Iran gets WMDs. You might hate the Israellies but many people outside of dispensationalism in the US will breath a huge sigh of relief when the Jewish state lights up the streets of Tehran simply because the other option is too horrable to imagine. Many people with no religious agenda see the problem clearly but you don't. Why?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
In the above post by thomas15 responding to AresMan we have the "insanity" of the "obsession" of some dispensationalists with Israel.
AresMan rightly states that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the solution to the problems of man. thomas15 calls this "stupid"!
thomas15
Well-Known Member
Not what I said if you read my post and you know it but since you are so fascinated with your own thinking and that of your friends at disney world go ahead and think whatever you want.
On edit: And actually, if you read what AresMan wrote, he wasn't saying that Jesus is the answer to man's problems, he was actually making a snide comment about dispies and futurists (ie: observing to fleshly ordinances) and the middle east situation. We all i'm sure agree that Jesus is the answer if we disagree on everything else.
So I stand by my stupid comment.
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Noted!:applause::applause:
thomas15
Well-Known Member
I'll return the favor with this bit of free information, right now the lines at space mountain are short. If you hurry you can get one in before lunch with mickey.
By "fleshly ordinances" I meant both Muslims and Jews who reject Christ following the laws of a carnal command: sacramental, ceremonial observances without knowledge of the perfect redemption in Christ.
Christian zionists...dispensationalists...one in the same. I know you are used to playing the semantics game, heck that is how preterists come to spiritualize everything whether it is meant to be or not.
Hey, I didn't say spreading the gospel is always easy. I said that the solution to the problems there is the gospel. You would disagree?
When have I ever suggested that "life will be good" if the current nation of Israel were gone? There is benefit in having Israel (or any nation for that matter) as an ally. This does not mean that we have to go overboard and think that we as Christians will be blessed or cursed by God depending on if we actively promote helping Jews follow a religion based on fleshly ordinances severed from God. What ever happened to "Jew and Gentile are equal"?
How DARE you even begin to imply that I "might hate the Israellies [sic]" simply because I reject dispensationalism. This view frosts me because if one simply agrees with the Apostle Paul that "Jew and Gentile are equal" and "ye are one in Christ," one is anti-Semitic. If one doesn't believe in actively promoting modern Judaism for religious reasons (even though modern Judaism rejects Christ), one is anti-Semitic. If one even suggests that Jews and Muslims need the gospel (rather than a piece of land), one is anti-Semitic. Too many dispensationalists simply cannot accept non-dispensationalists as being truly friendly to modern Jews.
The reason that there is conflict over there is because two ethic groups both claim a plot of land, both follow sacramental religion, and both reject Christ. It is a conflict of religion as anyone can see.
What did Paul say?
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
The liberty can only be found when the "veil is taken away" from their hearts and they see "the new covenant" of which we are ministers (2 Cor 3:6; 4:1)
Continuing on...
2Co 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry [of the new covenant], as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Seeing we have this ministry--being "able ministers of the new covenant"--we faint not. Our ministry to the Jews is to remove the veil from their hearts in their reading of the old covenant, not to push them even further into it.
Why can't people just step back, take a deep breath, and look at things from the stand point of the apostles? Where were they actively trying to gather the current diaspora back into the Promised Land, fearing judgment from God if they didn't? They clearly understood that the judgment Israel was facing was from rejecting the truth of Messiah, and their focus was on converting Jews to Christ.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The above makes a very cogent point! It is the sad truth on this Board that if anyone rejects dispensationalism they are by nature: anti Jewish, don't believe the Bible, and make a liar out of God.
I believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, I could not make a liar out of God, and my Savior was a Jew!
thomas15
Well-Known Member
No personal offense intended. But...
I didn't say you did, I said you might. A literary device I'm sure you experts on language know about. Other than that grow up and face up to what you write, which one would suppose is a reflection of what you believe.
Bronconagurski
New Member
Oh, but when God makes a promise and you refute that promise, you are making a liar out of God. I John says if we deny God's word, in that case that all have sinned, then we make God a liar. Of course, a lot of people get around God's word by saying it is allegorical, but not literal. That is very convenient, if that is the case.
Yes, but the implication is that dispensationalists, by default, love Jews whereas non-dispensationalists "might hate" them. I am a former dispensationalist. Believe me, I am familiar with dispensationalist arguments; I used to use them myself. What led me away from dispensationalism was studying the Scriptures myself and examining them against hyperdispensationalist claims. Seeing the holes in the theory and understanding the history of the movement as a modern invention certainly helped.
It can get tiring trying to argue my view with Scripture, and being considered even possibly "anti-Semitic" because I propose that the solution is the gospel and that I dare to challenge the modern sacred cow of premillennial dispensationalism.
You see, here it is again. Rejecting dispensationalism and merely arguing against it with what the apostles wrote will doom someone to eternal accusations of anti-Semitism. Simply believing that "Jew and Gentile are equal" as Paul emphasizes several times means that you are anti-Jew. If you do not believe that anyone has a specially favored status from God (at least now, anyway) based entirely on genetics, you are anti...
What promise has OR "refuted"?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The acerbic responses of those defending the dispensational doctrine is marked by a paucity of Scripture!
Semantics, red herring, beg the question, strawman etc.; a search of your thousands of knee jerk quips would reveal to anyone wanting to know just how shallow you really are with these instant 'ready made' accusations.
So where does that put your posts...in the kiddie pool? Put up or shut up time...difference between christian zionist cultists and dispensationalists?