Dispensationalists: Why is This Version of Israel THE One of Prophecy?

[thomas15]

I assure you OR is NOT ignorant of the scriptures!

Question? Whis is this enlightened fellow named OR?

Getting back to your highly informative debate with Bronconagurski (who clearly doesn't know with whom he is dealing with)...

Your presumptuousness is appalling.

So I, Thomas15 ask the question:

How so?

This is the quote that brought on the above outburst:

The nation of Israel is no longer the chosen nation of God and will never again be. With the Incarnation and crucifixion their part in God's purpose of Salvation was finished!

And now what follows, no less than a certain disney character will educate us on just how sinful men in any historical timeframe "help" Jehovah with the work of our Savior on the cross and the grace of our God. We need to start thanking the church for our salvation! Let us prepair our minds and hearts to receive a refutation of sola gratia. Let us receive helpful instruction correcting Jesus who in error said something about making descendents of Abraham out of rocks if that be the will of God.

 

[webdog]

I have yet to hear any arguments from the preterist / amil's about this subject from the lens of the Islamic world and the 12th Imam who fits the antichrist to a "T".

 

[AresMan]

Your ignorance of the scriptures is appalling.

Romans 11:25-31 (NET1)
25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins.”
28 In regard to the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but in regard to election they are dearly loved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.
30 Just as you were formerly disobedient to God, but have now received mercy due to their disobedience,
31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that, by the mercy shown to you, they too may now receive mercy.

See my earlier post (#90) in this thread

 

[thomas15]

The "fullness of the Gentiles" was complete when God destroyed the remains of Old Covenant Israel in A.D. 70.

Your theory shipwrecks when Luke 21:24 is considered.

 

[kyredneck]

I have yet to hear any arguments from the preterist / amil's about this subject from the lens of the Islamic world and the 12th Imam who fits the antichrist to a "T".

Why Iran's Top Leaders Believe That the End of Days Has Come
By Joel C. Rosenberg

Excerpt:

"Iran’s Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are convinced that the End of Days has come. They believe the Shia messiah known as the “Twelfth Imam” or the “Mahdi” will appear soon to establish a global Islamic kingdom known as the caliphate.

What’s more, they believe the way to hasten the coming of the Twelfth Imam is to annihilate Israel (which they call the “Little Satan”), and the United States (which they call the “Great Satan”). We should not, therefore, be surprised that Iran is probing for weaknesses in American intelligence and homeland security."

Glenn Beck and Joel Rosenberg discuss Iran and the 12th Imam 8:32

Is Mahdi, the 12th Imam, Antichrist? 6:00


Now we HAVE to invade Iran, RIGHT?


Both sides, the Muslims and the Christian Zionists are frothing to 'hasten the day.'

Lord please have mercy on us all.

I'd love to know how much money Rosenberg has made from marketing this sensationalism. Throwing fuel on the fire, literally.

 

[thomas15]

Both sides, the Muslims and the Christian Zionists are frothing to 'hasten the day.'

Truly pathetic. But there is still time to get your disney world tickets for that vacation of a lifetime!

 

[kyredneck]

Joel C. Rosenberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_C._Rosenberg

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Why would a baptist use muslim beliefs to define his own doctrine? I cannot understand that approach to theological understanding. I could find similarities between many false religions & segments of baptist theology, but that does not mean that either one of them are correct. Let's stick to a historically & grammatically correct interpretation of the written text of God's Word without turning to false religions for affirmation.

 

[webdog]

Why would a baptist use muslim beliefs to define his own doctrine? I cannot understand that approach to theological understanding. I could find similarities between many false religions & segments of baptist theology, but that does not mean that either one of them are correct. Let's stick to a historically & grammatically correct interpretation of the written text of God's Word without turning to false religions for affirmation.

Utter strawman. Nobody uses muslim beliefs to define their theology. The fact of the matter is in THEIR theology they are putting their hope in a future person who in OUR theology is described as the antichrist. Now tell me how THEIR 12th Imam fits the preterist / amil eschatology. It doesn't. There will be a future person on the scened named the antichrist who islam is also looking for but from the complete opposite angle and reasons we are.

 

[Bronconagurski]

I assure you OR is NOT ignorant of the scriptures!

Let me be more precise: His interpretation of the scriptures is appalling. Either God is a liar, or OR is a liar, and I know that God can't lie. So........

 

[Bronconagurski]

See my earlier post (#90) in this thread

I looked at it, and I must ask before further comment; Are you a preterist?

 

[kyredneck]

Why would a baptist use muslim beliefs to define his own doctrine? I cannot understand that approach to theological understanding. I could find similarities between many false religions & segments of baptist theology, but that does not mean that either one of them are correct. Let's stick to a historically & grammatically correct interpretation of the written text of God's Word without turning to false religions for affirmation.

......There will be a future person on the scened named the antichrist who islam is also looking for but from the complete opposite angle and reasons we are.

And he says it with such certainty! All based on the speculation of a self proclaimed Messianic Jew with direct links to Likud.

 

[webdog]

And he says it with such certainty! All based on the speculation of a self proclaimed Messianic Jew with direct links to Likud.

Um...not quite. Try dirct quote from muslims and THEIR eschatology.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Utter strawman. Nobody uses muslim beliefs to define their theology. The fact of the matter is in THEIR theology they are putting their hope in a future person who in OUR theology is described as the antichrist. Now tell me how THEIR 12th Imam fits the preterist / amil eschatology. It doesn't. There will be a future person on the scened named the antichrist who islam is also looking for but from the complete opposite angle and reasons we are.

I simply responded to the use of islam as a validation for dispy theology. Do you believe Muhammad was a true prophet that God spoke through? How else would they have such knowledge, if it were true? When I was young, the end-times preaching was centered on the Catholic Church; not Islam. It seems that future antichrist theology changes slightly to fit in the predominant anti-Christian group of the day.

 

[webdog]

I simply responded to the use of islam as a validation for dispy theology.

its not a validation, I asked how it coincides with the preterist / amil doctrine...to which nobody replied (shocker).

Do you believe Muhammad was a true prophet that God spoke through?

of course not. What a stupid question!

How else would they have such knowledge, if it were true?

i recall satan is quite familiar with Scripture (see: desert temptation of Jesus)

When I was young, the end-times preaching was centered on the Catholic Church; not Islam. It seems that future antichrist theology changes slightly to fit in the predominant anti-Christian group of the day.

are you implying we are anti-christian?

I don't understand why these preterist / amil's can so blatantly question the salvation of those who are not!

 

[michael-acts17:11]

All Islamic doctrine is irrelevant to my own. Why would I seek to coincide it with my own? I was not calling you antiChristian, I was speaking of fitting the premier anti-Christian group of the day into your theology.

BTW, I don't really consider myself a preterist. I just try to study Scripture within its proper historical & grammatical contexts. If this lines up with some preterist theology, then so be it. I don't worry about what groups my theology does or does not conform with. I used to be a fundy, but changed my views of prophecy before I had ever even heard of preterists.

 

[webdog]

If you think the things happening in the world is "irrelevant", you need to open your eyes. I'm sure...their doctrine is just a coincidence to what our doctrine has prophecied...just like they hate Israel due to dispensationalists here in America.

 

[kyredneck]

...just like they hate Israel due to dispensationalists here in America.

I've told you more than once this thread that I said no such thing. If you're still insinuating me as the source for your nutty assertion then you are LYING.

 

[Iconoclast]

If you think the things happening in the world is "irrelevant", you need to open your eyes. I'm sure...their doctrine is just a coincidence to what our doctrine has prophecied...just like they hate Israel due to dispensationalists here in America.

The back drop of evil happening in the world is exists to allow for sinners to get saved.For the gospel to go worldwide sin exists everywhere.
The unsaved rage against the Lord, no matter what timeline you use.

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

The demonic lunatics in Islam can and do try to kill all non Islamic persons.
Israel still remains under God's judgement.

 

[kyredneck]

If it's anyone that has contempt or disdain for the dispensationalists it's THE ZIONISTS, all the while they're playing them like a banjo string.