Divine Illumination/ Divine Enablement

[OldRegular]

Demonstrate this so-called doctrine through the Scriptures.
This is Calvinism. It is not what the Bible teaches.

John 3:3-8 demonstrates that the New Birth or regeneration is the initial event in Salvation. Please notice that belief or faith is not mentioned as a requisite for the New Birth. I showed you earlier {post #54} that Salvation was by Grace DHK.

John 3:3-8
3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Apparently it is simply beyond your level of spiritual maturity to comprehend just as Nicodemus could not understand it. Consider what Jesus Christ told Nicodemus:

John 3:9-12
9. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

[DHK]

John 3:3-8 demonstrates that the New Birth or regeneration is the initial event in Salvation. Please notice that belief or faith is not mentioned as a requisite for the New Birth. I showed you earlier {post #54} that Salvation was by Grace DHK.

Half the verse? Typical Calvinism.

For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves; (it is) the gift of God.

John 3:3-8
3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Apparently it is simply beyond your level of spiritual maturity to comprehend just as Nicodemus could not understand it. Consider what Jesus Christ told Nicodemus:

John 3:9-12
9. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Quoting scripture does not demonstrate that regeneration comes before salvation or faith. You have done nothing except to prove that you know how to copy and paste, and print derogatory remarks.
For that last part especially you excel in.

 

[DHK]

DHK
This thread is about God illuminating truth to sinners, not works salvation that you are going on and on about.
here are the verses being spoken of in this thread....address them;

This thread was started by you. It is about what you have posted. (Or did you forget?) My responses are simply responses to what you post, page by page, post by post. If you are unable to reply then it is your problem, not mine.

Jn3;

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


Mt11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth,

because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent,

and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.


MT13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given


Mt16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Nice verses? And so? Am I supposed to be impressed? I am not. I believe the Bible also. You didn't explain a single one.
The difference here is when I post a verse I can at least explain the meaning. Apparently you can't.

Then Biblicists post;
sure it did, they got it. You did not....ask them they will tell you.

sure it does.....you have not spoken to the real issue yet.:thumbs:

blessed wife 318 got it and posted, I added a few...read it again....
we are speaking about why someone can understand truth...EZK 36...and eph 1 and eph 4....Did you read the thread at all?

I have responded on each and every page, since I started posting, and yes I have read the entire thread. After all you started it with my quote. And even then you don't seem to understand what I quoted. How foolish! It is not me that does not understand.

read before you entered and tried to derail the thread...then you might get it.

Perhaps you should ask first before you post false accusations.

Nothing to do with the OP

If my answer has nothing to do with the OP, then your post has nothing to do with the OP. So you are the one in the wrong. I was answering your post. If you don't like the answer then don't post such things.

This is off topic ...no Cal believes anything like you say. The topic is why one person can welcome truth and another cannot.

Just like non-Cals don't believe that dispensationalism or premillennialism started with Darby, but we will here it until Jesus comes again, anyway.
First we are talking about believers. The quote you took was from me made in the context of believers.
Second, you have insinuated that Steaver (in another thread) and myself (in this thread) are unable to receive what you call "divine truth."
Third, you have inferred that the only "divine truth" that there is falls within the confines of Calvinism.
Fourth, you have insinuated (taking the last two points together) that both Steaver and and myself are not saved.
--BTW, that is against the rules.
--You don't seem to have a lot of respect for others that differ from you.

because you cannot welcome it, does not mean that I cannot describe it.
Did you notice no one else says I cannot describe it.??? take the hint:

I would welcome a good explanation. You are unable to give one--thus my description that you quoted at the beginning of this thread. If you could describe in a simple way "regeneration" you would do it. But instead you need to use allegorical terminology in a very mystical way that undefinable to everyone. Salvation is very simple Icon. Why complicate it?

Notice there are very few participating in this discussion. Perhaps they don't want their heads bitten off by your sarcasm and biting remarks. They don't want to be told that they are unsaved.

Not really DHK. God's Covenant salvation is quite awesome and it is clearly revealed to His people:

Still no comprehension. I am not speaking of "covenant salvation." I never said anything about covenants. That is a different topic.

No one else says that...everyone else likes the discussion in the thread.Do you not see that??? Ask them.....they will tell you.

That is an off-the-wall statement.
Here is what I said, what you are responding to:

You need to speak in such allegorical terms that you can't explain what you are saying.

I never said anything about what other people like or whether or not they like the discussion, etc. etc. What has that got to do with anything.
--I said you speak in allegorical terms that are hard to understand, or that you yourself cannot explain. That has nothing to do with whether or not others are enjoying this discussion. You can't even answer a post with a straight answer.

I have not heard anyone say that. If they were not given a new heart , they were not saved at that time, I do not care what they say.

Again, more miscomprehension. You can't comprehend what I say so you make up some other answer.
First I am not talking about "hearsay," what you may or may not have heard.
I am speaking of the basic comprehension of younger people.
This is what I said:

There are some on this board that will testify that they were regenerated and saved as early as four to six years of age.
Now tell them how they had a "heart transplant in the unseen realm" at that age.
--In simple terms, if I were to take your words and tell that to a six year old child how do you think they would respond? :sleep:

I hold what has been believed in the historic church;

IOW, you don't know what you believe so you have to quote some document.
You are unable to express your own thoughts from the Bible.

Of Saving Faith
The grace of faith, by the administration of baptism it is increased and strengthened.

--Saved through baptism are you?

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK,

Look.....you are doing it again. I do not need a spokesman DHK

Quote:
Truth is God given....unless allowed by God...you will never come to truth.

This is the height of arrogance.

This is your frustration coming out...you lash out!

You say you have the truth.

Yes....God has made His truth as it is found in Jesus known to me.I have much more to learn and seek to do that with all my might.

God revealed the truth to you.

Any Christian that has any truth has been allowed by God to understand that truth. If you do not understand that by now, you should not be teaching anyone.

All others that differ from you do not have the truth

,

Where did I post that? If you cannot produce such a post than you should keep your foul thoughts to yourself.

an inference that we are all unsaved and that you are the only one that is.

"An inference'

a conclusion reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning.

synonyms: deduction, conclusion, reasoning, conjecture, speculation, guess, presumption, assumption, supposition, reckoning, extrapolation


I have said no such thing. For you to post this shows you are pathetic. Unless and until I make such a statement, I do not need yourt moronic comments, speculations and "iNFERENCE" KEEP SUCH FOUL POSTING TO YOURSELF.

Look carefully at what you said:

Are you psychotic??? I have said no such thing.

Unless God allows it, DHK will never come to the truth.

Although I have said no such thing....if this is your personal confession...so be it. If God does not grant someone to understand and welcome truth they will have religion but not true salvation.

Is that really what you think?

I post here on BB......and stay within the rules ....The rules prohibit free expression of all thoughts.

 

[OldRegular]

Half the verse? Typical Calvinism.

For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves; (it is) the gift of God.

As usual DHK you are disingenuous in your response. Consider ALL I posted:

I believe Scripture states that Salvation is by Grace alone.

Acts 15:11. But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Ephesians 2:5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2 Timothy 1:9. Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

DHK, You tell the story about being saved at a Bible study, I believe, but I don't recall exactly. I believe you said you were raised Roman Catholic so what brought you to that particular event. Was it the work of God or simply "luck"?

Anyone who is saved is saved by the GRACE of God and that is the Biblical teaching.

Quoting scripture does not demonstrate that regeneration comes before salvation or faith.

You asked for Scripture I gave you Scripture and as usual if it does not comport with your view you reject it. But consider the following:

Ephesians 2:1-10
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The meaning of the Scripture is clear but two points:

1. We were dead in sin and God made us alive. Same thing we were told in John 3:3-8; the New Birth, Regeneration, prior to any mention of faith. I have said many times on this BB that Faith is an essential part of Salvation as is Repentance. Both are related to Conversion.

2. We are created in Christ Jesus. Note CREATED. Made spiritually alive.

You have done nothing except to prove that you know how to copy and paste, and print derogatory remarks.
For that last part especially you excel in.

No one on the BB can come close to you in making snotty, hateful remarks DHK and you rejoice in that!

 

[OldRegular]

Icon you might as well shovel manure against the tide as try to converse with DHK. He will hit you in the face with it far quicker than the tide will.

He refers above to Darby and dispensationalism which he rejects. However I presented writings of a pre-trib-dispensational scholar, Dr. Thomas Ice, that Darby is the father of pre-trib-dispensationalism, based on a revelation from Isaiah 32 while convalescing from a riding accident. Waste of time because DHK did not read it first!

Ice only talks about Darby's founding of pre-trib-dispensationalism, not dispensationalism in general which preceded Darby. There is also indication that some had written about a pre-trib-rapture prior to Darby but nevertheless Ice calls Darby its father!

 

[DHK]

DHK,

Look.....you are doing it again. I do not need a spokesman DHK

No you don't need a spokesman. You say those things many times over.
Why do you think "I will never come to the truth unless allowed by God."
Isn't that an inference by you that I haven't come to the truth and I am not saved? Why do you say things like that?

 

[DHK]

As usual DHK you are disingenuous in your response. Consider ALL I posted:

Anyone who is saved is saved by the GRACE of God and that is the Biblical teaching.

You asked for Scripture I gave you Scripture and as usual if it does not comport with your view you reject it. But consider the following:

Ephesians 2:1-10
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The meaning of the Scripture is clear but two points:

1. We were dead in sin and God made us alive. Same thing we were told in John 3:3-8; the New Birth, Regeneration, prior to any mention of faith. I have said many times on this BB that Faith is an essential part of Salvation as is Repentance. Both are related to Conversion.

2. We are created in Christ Jesus. Note CREATED. Made spiritually alive.

You are simply pitting scripture against scripture, and often not quoting entire texts.

Romans 5:1--justified by faith.
Acts 16:31--salvation by faith.
Acts 10:43--remission of sins by faith.
John 1:12--sons of God by faith.
John 5:24--everlasting life by faith.
John 3:18--is not condemned by faith.

And much more. Whatever happened to sola fide?

 

[Iconoclast]

[DHK

This thread was started by you. It is about what you have posted. (Or did you forget?) My responses are simply responses to what you post, page by page, post by post. If you are unable to reply then it is your problem, not mine.

You cannot understand this topic yet...everyone else did.

Nice verses? And so? Am I supposed to be impressed? I am not.

No....you cannot grasp what they teach so they mean nothing to you. We all rejoice in the truth of those verses however.

I believe the Bible also.

so you claim....

You didn't explain a single one.

so you claim...everyone else gets it however.

The difference here is when I post a verse I can at least explain the meaning. Apparently you can't

.

:laugh:it does not look that way DHK.....Why not ask each person who posts what the truth is:laugh:

I have responded on each and every page, since I started posting, and yes I have read the entire thread. After all you started it with my quote. And even then you don't seem to understand what I quoted. How foolish! It is not me that does not understand.

Not according to everyone else on the thread...time for a reality Check...

Perhaps you should ask first before you post false accusations.

I posted openly and quoted accurately. The only false accusations belonged to you and your INFERENCE.

Second, you have insinuated that Steaver (in another thread) and myself (in this thread) are unable to receive what you call "divine truth."
Only in your sin twisted imagination.

Third, you have inferred that the only "divine truth" that there is falls within the confines of Calvinism.

Your inference is your own problem...it is your wicked imagination as I have not said anything like that. This is your glorified STRAWMAN once again.
You have to now make up what you infer that I might have said...LAME!

Fourth, you have insinuated (taking the last two points together) that both Steaver and and myself are not saved.

read again big boy....YOU SAID THAT......I said no such thing:wavey:

--BTW, that is against the rules.

As I said in my last post....I stay within the rules.....nice try, someone pathetic, but what can I expect.

--You don't seem to have a lot of respect for others that differ from you.

I have had many dis agreements even with many who I agree on 90% of things with. I have never showed contempt for them as they do not break the 9th commandment and bear false witness and lie about me.

I have asked you in particular not to do this at least 8-9 times now and yet you cannot demonstrate a Christian ethic. I despise lying and bearing false witness.......Go ahead...ask EVERYONE if this is not true.....
Several have said as much to you on this very thread.

I would welcome a good explanation. You are unable to give one--thus my description that you quoted at the beginning of this thread. If you could describe in a simple way "regeneration" you would do it. But instead you need to use allegorical terminology in a very mystical way that undefinable to everyone. Salvation is very simple Icon. Why complicate it?

If salvation and bible truth was so simple .....God would have written a post card, not 66 books. He in wisdom has given His word. He makes sure it accomplishes all He intends for it to accomplish to His people
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Notice there are very few participating in this discussion. Perhaps they don't want their heads bitten off by your sarcasm and biting remarks. They don't want to be told that they are unsaved.

They cannot stand your foul posting and killing of a good thread. Look before you entered, look after you tried to destroy the good discussion...

AGAIN...ASK EVERYONE WHO TOOK PART:thumbsup:

You need to speak in such allegorical terms that you can't explain what you are saying.

I posted from EZk 36...you call it allegorical? I list what God SAID he would do

--I said you speak in allegorical terms that are hard to understand, or that you yourself cannot explain. That has nothing to do with whether or not others are enjoying this discussion. You can't even answer a post with a straight answer.

Others enjoy it to a certain extent. I answer just fine....again ASK EVERYONE HERE if you want to find out the truth.

There are some on this board that will testify that they were regenerated and saved as early as four to six years of age.
Now tell them how they had a "heart transplant in the unseen realm" at that age.
--In simple terms, if I were to take your words and tell that to a six year old child how do you think they would respond?

I have explained EZK 36 to youndg people and old people ...they get it. You do not seem to however.

IOW, you don't know what you believe so you have to quote some document.
You are unable to express your own thoughts from the Bible.

But I can and do explain DHK...I also use the teaching of others from Church history to show I do not construct novelties as you do. It is the historic faith

 

[Iconoclast]

OldRegular

Icon you might as well shovel manure against the tide as try to converse with DHK. He will hit you in the face with it far quicker than the tide will.

:laugh::wavey::laugh: he is really losing touch with reality....I asked him to ask everyone what is going on if he will not believe me:laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

Does anyone think DHK is dealing with the issue of the OP????

 

[Iconoclast]

Does anyone here think EZK 36 and this description is allegorical??? or is it clear as the noon day sun?


Here are some more Divine means that God uses to enable a sinner to to what he cannot by himself

God has promised to give a new heart-

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols,
will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you,
and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you,
and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments,
and do them.

Notice DHK.... God does it all......here in case you missed it-
God does a Divine heart transplant. Unlike your "testimony" [where you did everything}
1]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you

2]from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

3]A new heart also will I give you,

4]and a new spirit will I put within you

5]and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,

6]and I will give you an heart of flesh

7]And I will put my spirit within you

8]and cause you to walk in my statutes

 

[OldRegular]

You are simply pitting scripture against scripture, and often not quoting entire texts.

Romans 5:1--justified by faith.
Acts 16:31--salvation by faith.
Acts 10:43--remission of sins by faith.
John 1:12--sons of God by faith.
John 5:24--everlasting life by faith.
John 3:18--is not condemned by faith.

And much more. Whatever happened to sola fide?

Notice how faithfully DHK quoted the entire text in the above. Truth be known he also changed the wording to suit his purpose. Did you get that authority by Divine Illumination or Divine Enablement DHK?

Romans 5:1. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Acts 16:31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 10:43. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

John 1:12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 5:24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Again you reveal your tendency for duplicity DHK. I clearly said that Repentance and Faith were essential parts of Salvation, a statement you choose to ignore.

I have said many times on this BB that Faith is an essential part of Salvation as is Repentance. Both are related to Conversion.

The truth is that were it not for the GRACE of God no one would be saved.

Some Scripture for you to consider DHK:

Acts 13:45-49
45. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49. And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Notice the Scripture in large print DHK. Only those who were ordained or appointed to eternal life believe. That is the Doctrine of Sovereign Election and Grace in a nutshell.

John 10:24-31
24. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30. I and my Father are one.
31. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Notice the large print. Only the Sheep of Jesus Christ, the Elect, believe.

Now consider:

Ephesians 1:3-7
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This passage teaches the election before the foundation of the world of certain people to salvation in Jesus Christ. Notice especially Verse 7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.

G R A C E, DHK! GRACE! Only by the GRACE of God are any saved.

No Grace, No Incarnation;
No Incarnation, No Cross;
No Cross, No Resurrection;
No Resurrection, No Hope.

I repeat. Only by the Grace of God are any saved.

 

[OldRegular]

Does anyone here think EZK 36 and this description is allegorical??? or is it clear as the noon day sun?


Here are some more Divine means that God uses to enable a sinner to to what he cannot by himself

God has promised to give a new heart-

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols,
will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you,
and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you,
and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments,
and do them.

Notice DHK.... God does it all......here in case you missed it-
God does a Divine heart transplant. Unlike your "testimony" [where you did everything}
1]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you

2]from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

3]A new heart also will I give you,

4]and a new spirit will I put within you

5]and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,

6]and I will give you an heart of flesh

7]And I will put my spirit within you

8]and cause you to walk in my statutes

Good Scripture Icon. I have used them often when teaching SS. Salvation is all of God and only because of His Grace. It is God who makes that which is dead in sin alive and that is the truth of Scripture.

 

[DHK]

Does anyone here think EZK 36 and this description is allegorical??? or is it clear as the noon day sun?


Here are some more Divine means that God uses to enable a sinner to to what he cannot by himself

God has promised to give a new heart-

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols,
will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you,
and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you,
and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments,
and do them.

Notice DHK.... God does it all......here in case you missed it-
God does a Divine heart transplant. Unlike your "testimony" [where you did everything}
1]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you

2]from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

3]A new heart also will I give you,

4]and a new spirit will I put within you

5]and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,

6]and I will give you an heart of flesh

7]And I will put my spirit within you

8]and cause you to walk in my statutes

You keep quoting this passage (without knowledge), thinking it speaks of the regeneration of the believer. Have you ever really studied it. What is it really talking about? What was God revealing to Ezekiel.

First chapter 35 was a judgment against Israel's enemies.
Now in chapter 36 God draws his attention to Israel herself.
Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
--This is clearly addressed to Israel, and it so for the sake of the holy name of Jehovah.

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
--The fulfillment of this prophecy is happening even now. Never before have so many Israelites from all over the world been returning to their own land then right now in the generation we live in.
--It is simply a sign that the coming of the Lord is soon.

Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
--The "you" is Israel. It has nothing to do with Gentiles.
God will first restore the nation physically (verse 24). Then He will do as He promised right here.
In the OT sprinkling or washing with water pictured cleansing from ceremonial defilement. Israel's sin was like pollution or defilement. Now God would cleanse her. This cleansing is compared to a ceremonial act of purification, a comparison that the Jews of that day could relate to and understand.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
--The cleansing would be followed by a new life. God will give them a new life. As a nation they will be converted. (Rom.11:26; Rev.1:7)

He will give Israel a heart of flesh, and they will be motivated to serve him. The same truth is corroborated here:
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
--He is speaking to Israel, not the Gentiles. This is prophetic.

This is also explained in Jeremiah 31:31-33. This is the "work of God" in Israel, yet to come. It has not yet been fulfilled.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
--With God's Spirit, they will be motivated to do His work.

Ezekiel 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
--This is the context you should be concerned with.
Icon lives in New York; OR lives in South Carolina. Those places are not "the land I gave to your fathers," that is, the land of Israel. This does not apply to you, as does any of the previous verses.
They apply to the nation of Israel, and they haven't been fulfilled yet.
They are not even speaking about NT regeneration of the Gentile believer.

No, you don't know what you are talking about. ("in case you missed it")

 

[DHK]

Notice how faithfully DHK quoted the entire text in the above. Truth be known he also changed the wording to suit his purpose. Did you get that authority by Divine Illumination or Divine Enablement DHK?

You are not being honest OR.
I never quoted any verses at all. I only gave the reference and the teaching. I never quoted any part of the verse.
Look again:

Romans 5:1--justified by faith.
Acts 16:31--salvation by faith.
Acts 10:43--remission of sins by faith.
John 1:12--sons of God by faith.
John 5:24--everlasting life by faith.
John 3:18--is not condemned by faith.

And much more. Whatever happened to sola fide?

There is no part of any reference that is quoted. Next time read more carefully and stop with the false accusation.

But thanks anyway for quoting the verses in their entirety. It only proves my point more clearly that salvation is by faith and faith alone.

Romans 5:1. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Acts 16:31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 10:43. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

John 1:12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 5:24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[OldRegular]

You are not being honest OR.
I never quoted any verses at all. I only gave the reference and the teaching. I never quoted any part of the verse.
Look again:

There is no part of any reference that is quoted. Next time read more carefully and stop with the false accusation.

But thanks anyway for quoting the verses in their entirety. It only proves my point more clearly that salvation is by faith and faith alone.

You are the most disingenuous person on this Forum DHK! You really need to examine your motives. Because I present some facts in other threads about the origin of pre-trib-dispensationalism you allow your bitterness to corrupt everything you post. I repeat some comments I made earlier in hopes God will use them to convict you! But then you don't believe in Divine Illumination or Divine Enablement!

The truth is that were it not for the GRACE of God no one would be saved.

Some Scripture for you to consider DHK:

Acts 13:45-49
45. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49. And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Notice the Scripture in large print DHK. Only those who were ordained or appointed to eternal life believe. That is the Doctrine of Sovereign Election and Grace in a nutshell.

John 10:24-31
24. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30. I and my Father are one.
31. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Notice the large print. Only the Sheep of Jesus Christ, the Elect, believe.

Now consider:

Ephesians 1:3-7
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This passage teaches the election before the foundation of the world of certain people to salvation in Jesus Christ. Notice especially Verse 7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.

G R A C E, DHK! GRACE! Only by the GRACE of God are any saved.

No Grace, No Incarnation;
No Incarnation, No Cross;
No Cross, No Resurrection;
No Resurrection, No Hope.

I repeat. Only by the Grace of God are any saved.

 

[RLBosley]

Icon, OR, you are both far more patient than I am. You are wasting your energies I fear, I think you'd have better success trying to teach calculus to a squirrel.

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon, OR, you are both far more patient than I am. You are wasting your energies I fear, I think you'd have better success trying to teach calculus to a squirrel.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: at least the squirrel would not say it was for national Israel,lol:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

You are the most disingenuous person on this Forum DHK! You really need to examine your motives. Because I present some facts in other threads about the origin of pre-trib-dispensationalism you allow your bitterness to corrupt everything you post. I repeat some comments I made earlier in hopes God will use them to convict you! But then you don't believe in Divine Illumination or Divine Enablement!

:thumbs: You know he cannot face the music:applause: