Divine Justice

[Silverhair]

I was wondering if you did.

I quoted the bible and you seemed to have an issue with that.

 

[JonC]

So we all agree that God will punish sins, God will punish the wicked, and God will justify the ones in Christ.

We still differ about what Justice means insofar as the law as a master over God.

My view:

The law reflects God's nature. It is perfect. But it is not the only manifestation of God's righteousness.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

IF God makes us a new creation and the "old man" is gone (completely at Judgment as we have been conformed into the image of Christ) THEN there is no condemnation under the law.

God is just, under the law, but the requirements of the law are met apart from the law.

 

[JesusFan]

I agree with the passages you offer. And yes, the unsaved will be punished.

I think of Judgment Day kinda like a court with only two types of people.

One group are the wicked, and they have stored up wrath for themselves for this day of wrath.

But the other group are the saved. These are now, standing begore God, made in the image of Christ. And they will be justified.


I was just wondering why you believed that sins must be punished.

I do not share that idea of justice.

Calvin insisted that every crime must be punished, that the role of the judge is to avenge the law.
I believe he was wrong.

I believe that the role of a judge is restoration - to restore justice - whether by punishment or rehabilitation. In terms of God, to restore justice whether by punishment (casting out the wicked) or by transforming the wicked into One who is righteous.

In the end we hold to the same result- those who stand before God at Judgment in Christ are justified and the wicked are condemned.


When I read all of the passages talking about God forgiving sins based on Christ Himself, the sinner repenting and turning from evil to God, this re-birth, I just do not see what punishing every sin adds to redemption.

I have about 3 more hours and I get to go to bed.

In order to get to the saved being now justified before Holy God, that stored up wrath had to get appeased/satisfied before they could get justified and made new creatures in Christ

 

[Silverhair]

In order to get to the saved being now justified before Holy God, that stored up wrath had to get appeased/satisfied before they could get justified and made new creatures in Christ

God's wrath was appeased through Christ Jesus,

Rom_3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

Heb_2:17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

1Jn_2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

1Jn_4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins

All sins, past, present and future were appeased so that those that have placed or will place their faith in God are saved by the grace of God.

 

[JonC]

God's wrath was appeased through Christ Jesus,

Rom_3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

Heb_2:17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

1Jn_2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

1Jn_4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins

All sins, past, present and future were appeased so that those that have placed or will place their faith in God are saved by the grace of God.

Ultimately the question is whether God's wrath is propitiated by Christ or suffered by Christ. I am not sure "appeased" is the correct word. Probably "mediated" would be a better word (it is the word the Bible uses).