Divorced Preachers

[hrhema]

Hosea was still a man of God. No he did not divorce but he could of.

The problem is with a lot of judgemental posters you have not been in the shoes of people so you have no right to judge. Let it happen to you and let your spouses cheat on you over and over again and lets see how fast you don't run to divorce court. It's easy to sit in judgement when your life seems so rosy. God will take into account this sarcasm and cynicism and he will hold you accountable for it. Jesus said we are not to judge. You know I find it amazing that not a one of you dealt with what I said about lust. I know why. People hide their own guilt and pour their condemnation out on other people.

You cannot force a person to stay in a marriage if they do not choose to. I have thrown this challenge out before and no one can answer me.
How many of you are going to hog-tie your mate if they choose to commit adultery on you and walk out the door and they tell you I don't want to be married to you anymore. Come on guys get in the real world. People who commit Adultery are the guilty party. I cannot believe how so many of you can say things like it must have been the others person fault that their spouses cheated on them. Again one of these days the tide will turn in your life and I wonder how you will feel when others judge you?

 

[romanbear]

Hi hrhema;

a Quote from you below;
______________________________________________________________
The fact that Hoseas wife was a whore did not disqualify him from being a prophet, Think about it. His wife was selling herself. Was not Hosea innocent. Did God tell Hosea you cannot be my prophet because you should have controlled your marriage. I think every last person on this board needs to stop and think about this and let God judge.
_______________________________________________________________
First I agree that a man is not responsible for his wife's sins.This man ("described by John Miller"). remarried and thus is committing adultery.per
"Mar 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her".

Are you saying we should have pastors who are openly living in sin.That we aren't to know a mans background and how he lives and follow him blindly.Just because we shouldn't judge.We have no commandment from our savior not to judge but, are warned that we have to be fair in our judgments. We can't live a true Christian life with out judging those with whom we associate.Simply because those with whom we associate have influence on us.You have to admit that a pastor not only has influence on us but also our Children and fellow Christians.How can a man witness to his flock once he has destroyed his testimony and continues in his sin.Christ does not forgive those who do not repent.if a pastor remarries after divorce then as long as he is living with his new wife he is committing adultery.This is also the same for everyone not just pastors.
May God bless

Romanbear
Peace

 

[TheOliveBranch]

hrhema,
A person doesn't have to murder to speak out against one. And if you haven't read, in many of the other posts, most agree that the divorced is not being thrown out of the church. There are positions that would be acceptable for them. Hosea was called by God, specifically to marry the whore to show Israel their whoredoms, Hosea 1:2.

And, you did throw this out before, and it was answered. You just aren't reading what you want to see. If they divorce, let them go. But if you have not run your house well, you,therefore, no longer qualify. And if you don't like the way God laid out this guideline, then leave. There are plenty of other churches out there that will take you in, just not in there circles I am associated with.

And also, why do you assume that life with a spouse is all rosy if they aren't divorcing. You judge unknowingly. Because we choose to stick with the marriage and work things out doesn't mean we don't or haven't gone thru these things. You are the one being the judgmental poster and are definitly not in the shoes of the ones obeying God's promises. We are two that have become one and will not let man put asunder what God has joined together.

 

[TomMann]

I'm 54 years old, twice divorced, retired sailor. Spent a lot of years running drunk, away from home, overseas, exhibiting very little moral character. Thus the divorces. I became aware of my salvation in the early 90's and in the mid 90's even decided (primarily because of divine chastisment) that I needed church. Re-remarried in 1998 to a christian gal who had also been divorced when very young and was remarried and recently widowed. While we don't have model christian pasts, we live modest christian lives.... both sure of our salvation and calling. Now, if God has called me to preach should I tell Him that I can't, because I'm not qualified.

 

[TheOliveBranch]

Originally posted by hrhema:
Every pastor and preacher is really disqualified from the ministry if what a lot of what you say is true. Jesus disqualified them by saying that He that looketh on a woman and lusteth after her in his heart has committed Adultery with her. It doesn't matter if you were unsaved or if you were young. I have really (if a person is truthful before God) never met one male who has not sometime in his life never lusted after the opposite sex. So every licensed preacher in the Baptist movement needs to step down.

You made reference to the portion in scripture that Jesus warns of thoughts that are cause of commiting adultery. From my understanding, these thoughts are common to man. Jesus is clear in this statement. But what you have failed to take into consideration is the fact of how the phrase is stated. "looketh on a woman" is written as a present participle, making the action a continuous action. In other words, dwelling on the lust for the woman. Many preachers may catch themselves in a thought, but have the strength from the Lord to overcome the thought before it becomes the act of adultery. And if they cannot control their thoughts, then they are accountable for that action before the Lord.

 

[Molly]

Originally posted by TomMann:
I'm 54 years old, twice divorced, retired sailor. Spent a lot of years running drunk, away from home, overseas, exhibiting very little moral character. Thus the divorces. I became aware of my salvation in the early 90's and in the mid 90's even decided (primarily because of divine chastisment) that I needed church. Re-remarried in 1998 to a christian gal who had also been divorced when very young and was remarried and recently widowed. While we don't have model christian pasts, we live modest christian lives.... both sure of our salvation and calling. Now, if God has called me to preach should I tell Him that I can't, because I'm not qualified.

God does not *call* anyone to preach that is not qualified.....

 

[Ben W]

Tom, the Field is ready, but the workers few. If the Holy Spirit has spoken to you about doing something for the Lord go for it. If satan wants to remind you of your past and make you feel that you are not worthy to serve God, Remind him of his future,

 

[jimslade]

Molly

Could someone name one follower of Jesus, from the bible that was REMARRIED after a divorce.

Can't find any? Why?

Jim

[ January 02, 2003, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: jimslade ]

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by jimslade:
Bible boy :

The bible reads that Mary was" betrothed "to Joseph, not married at the time that she was "found with child"

Betrothal was like Engagement but taken very seriously.

[/qb][/QUOTE]Ah, but Jim you have not really answered my question. I know full well what the Bible says. Again, if they were not yet married then she was not his wife yet was she? Furthermore, if she was not his wife yet it would be impossible for him to divorce her because you cannot be divorced from someone to whom you are not married.

However, it appears from reading Matthew 1:18-19 that they actually were married. Matthew 1:18 indicates that "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 1:18 NKJV). This verse indicates, as you say, that the couple was engaged when Joseph found out that she was with child.

However, the next verse says, "The Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly" (Matt. 1:19 NKJV). Notice that the text does not refer to Joseph here as Mary's betrothed, but rather as her husband. This seems to indicate that a marriage has taken place.

Likewise, notice the next verse, "But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying 'Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit'" (Matt. 1:20, NKJV). Here again she is referred to as Joseph's wife indicating that a marriage has taken place. Perhaps it would be clearer if the passage had been translated ...do not be afraid to take to you Mary (as or to be) your wife,....

Yet, at the end of Matthew Chapter 1 we are told that Joseph did as the angel of the Lord commanded at took Mary to be his wife and did not know her until she had delivered her firstborn Son (Matt. 1:24-25). So the question remains were they married or not at the time that Joseph considered putting "her away secretly?"

The answer is that they were not married at the time that Joseph considered putting Mary away secretly. Additionally, the biblical text is being relayed to us after the fact of their eventual marriage according to the command of the angel of the Lord to Joseph. Thus, Matthew 1:19 refers to Joseph as Mary's husband due to the fact that at the time of its writing he was her husband, or had been and was now dead. With all of that said, clearly Joseph could not have divorced Mary at the time that he was considering putting "her away secretly" because she was not yet his wife. That is why the biblical text does not say that Joseph considered divorcing Mary. So you are going to have to find another proof text to support your position on divorce with respect to Pastors.

"The two shall become one" does not mean, the next one and the next one!

However, In Matthew 19:9 Jesus gave an exception to that if the spouse commits "fornication" (KJV), "sexual immorality" (NKJV). Likewise, the Bible says if an unbelieving spouse deserts a believing spouse that the believing spouse is not under bondage (1 Cor. 7:13-15). That means that the believing spouse is free. Now if someone is free they are free and there is no condemnation. Otherwise, the believing spouse is not truly free and those who would hold these types of divorce situations over the believing spouse or the non-adulterous spouse's head make these passages of Scripture untrue. Are you willing to go that route?

[ January 02, 2003, 04:40 AM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by jimslade:
Molly

Could someone name one follower of Jesus, from the bible that was REMARRIED after a divorce.

Can't find any? Why?

Jim

Hello Jim,

You are attempting to argue from silence here. That is a very weak argument logically speaking. The idea being that just because a source does not say anything about a specific situation or event does not mean that the situation or event did not occur. It simply means that your source does not address the specific situation or event in question.

 

[Bible-boy]

The problem here is that you all are focusing in on one specific requirement (the second) regarding the qualifications for a Pastor and ignoring the first qualification. The first qualification is that the candidate for Pastor must be blameless (1 Tim. 3:2). The NIV translates blameless as "above reproach." The idea being that he must be a man that no one can bring a charge against.

However, Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Rom. 3:23, NKJV). Therefore, no one is blameless or above reproach. The only man who has ever been able to fulfill these requirements (1 Tim. 3:1-7; Titus 1:6-9) is Jesus. No other Pastor in the history of Christianity has met these requirements. None, not a single one. You see the bar is set much much higher then the place where you are focusing. So how can we have Pastors? We have to look much deeper into the character of the man than simply saying, "He has been divorced so he is disqualified." Remember no one is qualified.

[ January 02, 2003, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]

 

[Walls]

Originally posted by TomMann:
Now, if God has called me to preach should I tell Him that I can't, because I'm not qualified.[/QB]

I have this question already and noone has answered, if you are called to preach, does this mean pastor as well or just preach? What are the qualifications to just preach?

 

[jimslade]

Bible boy;

You still do not understand the Jewish tradition of engagement and marriage. Study and get back to me.

The word for divorce and putting away are the SAME!!!!!! Thats why you don'[t understand the passage fully.

All sins are supposed to be forgiven? right?

Would you allow A Christian that has a problem with Money to be the church treasurer?

Same with someone who cannot look after his wife to be able to look after a congregation.

If you would, I have some swamp land in florida you may be interested in.

David sinned and was forgiven by God, what happened after his sin? He had to pay the price!

No one today will take responsibility for their actions!

The bondage issue Paul is talking about, does not in anyway refer to the freedom to remarry.
Its reffering to . You are no longer under the authority of the husband and you don't have to live with him anymore.

Why dont we open the jails and forgive like Jesus said we should?

Its because there are consequences for our actions,

Today the consequence of the marriage breakdown is a single life, you no longer qualify for marriage.

If you knew that you could not remarry then I think people would put all their efforts into reconciliation.

Why is the exeception rule found only in Matthew?
otherwise there would be a conflict with Matthew 1-18-20.

WALLS: We are all called to proclaim the Gospel but there are requirements for LEADING GODS PEOPLE>

[ January 02, 2003, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: jimslade ]

 

[hrhema]

What I find ironic is that individuals or individual churches take upon themselves beliefs that were not shared by the great leaders of the reformation. Luther, Knox, Calvin, Zwingli and on and on and on all believed that there are innocents in a divorce situation but not neccesarily in all cases. They all believed if the divorce happened because of sexual sins the innocent party had a right to remarry. In 1561 the Calvinistic City of Geneva passed a law that stated that divorce could only be granted for Adultery and remarriage could only happen if that marriage ended because of adultery. They also taught that a person was still qualified to the ministry if the circumstance of adultery had happened.

Other Protestant churches allowed divorce and remarriage based on the teachings of Paul that if the unbeliever departed but they did not allow those who remarried because of this reason into the ministry.

 

[romanbear]

Hi Walls;

The answer to your question qualifications for preaching or a pastor.

To be saved and living a Christian life.

You are not living a Christian life if you are living in sin,and you are living in sin if you divorce you wife or husband and marry and live as man and wife with another.It's not the divorce that's wrong it's the remarriage to another that's sin.You can not serve two masters you either have to stay single after divorce or if you have already remarried then you would have to leave your present wife and live single.Most want to over look the fact that God does not forgive sin that you do not repent of....Some think that all you have to do is ask for forgiveness,but there is no forgiveness with out repentance.
May God Bless
Romanbear
Peace

 

[Walls]

RomanBear,

So what you are saying is a divorced person should never remarry and remain abstinent for the rest of their life and then they will be living a Christian life?

I don't know of any man other than Paul that could even come close to that. That is why their is so many problems in the Catholic priesthood.

 

[hrhema]

Roman Bear:

Do you think you have more scripture knowledge than the great reformers, Luther, Knox, Calvin etc. It seems like you just ignored my last post. These men said that Jesus did give grounds for divorce and remarriage. That grounds was Adultery. If you can show anyone your credentials that puts you above these great men then please do so.

 

[TheOliveBranch]

Originally posted by Walls:
RomanBear,

So what you are saying is a divorced person should never remarry and remain abstinent for the rest of their life and then they will be living a Christian life?

I don't know of any man other than Paul that could even come close to that. That is why their is so many problems in the Catholic priesthood.

Not exactly what we are saying, but what God says. Paul was specific in 1Cor 7, when in verse 10, he states that "yet not I, but the Lord" that commands not to remarry.

 

[TheOliveBranch]

Originally posted by hrhema:
Roman Bear:

Do you think you have more scripture knowledge than the great reformers, Luther, Knox, Calvin etc. It seems like you just ignored my last post. These men said that Jesus did give grounds for divorce and remarriage. That grounds was Adultery. If you can show anyone your credentials that puts you above these great men then please do so.

The Anabaptists were above these men. Their stand is against divorce and remarriage.

The great reformers did have their downfalls. Another was infant baptism. Are we to keep ourselves under them and their beliefs in baptism just because they are the great reformers?

 

[hrhema]

You better study harder because I have studied the history of the AnaBaptists in books and many many websites and they did not preach against divorce totally. They too said a person could divorce and remarry if there was adultery committed.