C
CaraNoelle
Guest
I attend a Baptist church that believes it is NOT for today but my own personal belief is that it is for today.
love Cara
love Cara
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Do any Baptist churches believe that Speaking in Tongues is for today ??
I think a person can disagree and their not be any fuss over it. She doesn't have to take art if people do it, and and no one has to try and make another person in their church believe something else. My pastor doesn't believe tounges has ceased,and I do, so what. We don't actually have a teaching on it, so it rarely comes up, and when it does a few people may say what they think, and then move on peacably. I wouldn't change churchs over soemthing like that unless I was being pressed,a nd they were making a habit to do it all the time in worship service.
The first one that comes to mind is the Pentecostal Freewill Baptist Church.
http://www.pfwb.org/main.htm
There are several others, My church Seventh Day Baptist are congregational, so each different church would decide what they feel comfortable with.
http://www.pfwb.org/main.htm
There are several others, My church Seventh Day Baptist are congregational, so each different church would decide what they feel comfortable with.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
My church, as well as myself, do not believe that tongues is for today.
The only 'new tongue' I have is the one Jesus gave to me when He saved me and cleaned up my vocabulary!
Sue
The only 'new tongue' I have is the one Jesus gave to me when He saved me and cleaned up my vocabulary!
Sue
My church believed that they were for today and I did not. I finally quit attending that church because I realized that their willingness to accept that unscriptural doctrine revealed their willingness to compromise on many others as well.
I want a church that is willing to stand up for the truth of the Word, not one that is willing to sway with every doctrine that blows in the wind for the sake of "unity."
I would suggest that if you disagree with your church on this issue, you will later find that there is little you have in common with them.
~Lorelei
I want a church that is willing to stand up for the truth of the Word, not one that is willing to sway with every doctrine that blows in the wind for the sake of "unity."
I would suggest that if you disagree with your church on this issue, you will later find that there is little you have in common with them.
~Lorelei
I pastor a Baptist church and am reformed in theology, and I believe the Bible clearly teaches that all the gifts will be for the Church until the return of Christ. And although I do not make it a test of orthodoxy, I know of no one in my congregation who disagrees with me.
Pastork
[ February 06, 2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Pastork ]
Pastork
[ February 06, 2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Pastork ]
While I personally believe that Tongues have "passed away", I would be interested in knowing of any churches that hold the use of "tongues" to the guidelines that are very clearly stated in ICorinthians 12 and 14. My limited familiarity with the actual practice has not found any tongues believing church that enforces those guidelines.
It was explained to me that there are two kinds of
tongues speaking. One that accompanies the Baptism
of the Holy Spirit and one that is the gift of tongues
used in worship. I believe they are both for today
and yet I do not have the gift of speaking in tongues;
but I sure got a big dose of the evidence of tongues when
I received the touch from God. I have never spoken in
tongues since.
tongues speaking. One that accompanies the Baptism
of the Holy Spirit and one that is the gift of tongues
used in worship. I believe they are both for today
and yet I do not have the gift of speaking in tongues;
but I sure got a big dose of the evidence of tongues when
I received the touch from God. I have never spoken in
tongues since.
There are lots of Baptist that speak in tongues.
There are some churches that are Baptist that have no problem with this.
In 1998 at the Georgia Baptis convention there was a proposed resolution against Speaking in tongues. It did not pass. Not all Baptist believe in the Cessationist heresy.
There are some churches that are Baptist that have no problem with this.
In 1998 at the Georgia Baptis convention there was a proposed resolution against Speaking in tongues. It did not pass. Not all Baptist believe in the Cessationist heresy.
Loren,
If you were given "proof", you or other cessationists would just say that the proof isn't good enough. As I have written on another post about this topic, the request for "proof" from a cessationist is deceptive, because for the cessationist, the gifts are not for today, so no amount of "proof" will change your thinking.
To the originator of this thread:
You must obey Jesus. If Jesus wants you in that church, then attend that church, pray for that church, but mostly just stay invisible. It is not necessary to share your beliefs on the gifts with the other people who attend. The people who make up that Church (true believers) are blood bought and owned by the Lord Jesus, and are His sheep. Jesus can take care of His church. It is our reponsibility to hear His voice, and obey Him. Not everybody is going to believe the same about the gifts. And that is OK.
If you were given "proof", you or other cessationists would just say that the proof isn't good enough. As I have written on another post about this topic, the request for "proof" from a cessationist is deceptive, because for the cessationist, the gifts are not for today, so no amount of "proof" will change your thinking.
To the originator of this thread:
You must obey Jesus. If Jesus wants you in that church, then attend that church, pray for that church, but mostly just stay invisible. It is not necessary to share your beliefs on the gifts with the other people who attend. The people who make up that Church (true believers) are blood bought and owned by the Lord Jesus, and are His sheep. Jesus can take care of His church. It is our reponsibility to hear His voice, and obey Him. Not everybody is going to believe the same about the gifts. And that is OK.
Loren,
Our church is very careful not to allow the issue of tongues to become divisive, and we are therefore especially careful to observe Paul's instructions about when and how this gift should be permitted in the worship service. As of yet no one who says he has the gift has evidenced a desire to share it in the service. This is probably due to our emphasis upon not making a good gift a matter of division in the body. It is also probably due to our insistence that the person either have the gift of interpretation himself or know someone in the congregation who does, and that he or they first demonstrate to the elders the reality of the gift and that the interpretations are consistently in line with Scripture.
So, there is at least one church that doesn't go to unbiblical extremes with this gift, but I would note that I am aware of a number of churches that are careful to follow Paul's instructions on the issue.
Pastork
Our church is very careful not to allow the issue of tongues to become divisive, and we are therefore especially careful to observe Paul's instructions about when and how this gift should be permitted in the worship service. As of yet no one who says he has the gift has evidenced a desire to share it in the service. This is probably due to our emphasis upon not making a good gift a matter of division in the body. It is also probably due to our insistence that the person either have the gift of interpretation himself or know someone in the congregation who does, and that he or they first demonstrate to the elders the reality of the gift and that the interpretations are consistently in line with Scripture.
So, there is at least one church that doesn't go to unbiblical extremes with this gift, but I would note that I am aware of a number of churches that are careful to follow Paul's instructions on the issue.
Pastork
My church doesn't believe that the so called "miraculous gifts" (tongues, prophecy as fore-telling, healing, etc.) are for today but accept the "other gfts" (pastor/teacher, evangelist, prophecy as forth-telling, hospitality, etc.) as being for today. In 1975, I attended a SBC that was leaning that way but I have lost touch with them and don't know if they fell over or are still leaning.
I didn't realize I was a cessationist until I found this discussion. At least, I didn't realize there was a name for it. The best I can tell from the discussion, then I am a cessationist. I do not believe that there are ANY spiritual gifts for today. I did not start from that position, I ended with that position. I started with a belief that the Holy Spirit gifted Christians as He saw fit. I saw people being healed from devastating illnesses, I saw people speaking with other tongues, I saw people being raised from the VERY dead. Scripture takes precedence over experience, but I saw the two match in scripture time and time again.
Qwerty, you stated that cessationists' request for proof would be deceptive. My request is not vague so that I could deny what is offered as proof. I have a friend who is a funerak director and buries a lot of people. This very first time one of you guys who teach that these gifts are for today can command someone he buried to come out of the grave and the deceased does so, I will believe. The very first time one of you guys touch a man covered with a hideous deforming severe illness and he is immediately healed, I will believe. The very first time one of you guys touch my friend Jimmy and immediately restores his sight (his eyes have been surgically removed), I will believe. The very first time someone I know suddenly begins speaking and understanding a language that I know they have not learned, I will believe. I know several people who have been severely handicapped since birth and it is an obvious physical, outward, birth defect. The first time someone prays for them and they are restored whole immediately, I will believe. This will not happen, yet it happened in the Bible, openly, frequently, clearly, and without explanations about why it didn't. All I get now is, "Well, they didn't have enough faith.", or, I am told to believe because some vague or specific internal malady is in the process or has been invisibly healed and I have to take someones word for it. I am told that I should believe that someone speaking in a style that I nor anyone else on the face of the planet can understand is following the Bible, yet, no one ever does this in a language that they retain the ability to use. (Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.)
I didn't realize I was a cessationist until I found this discussion. At least, I didn't realize there was a name for it. The best I can tell from the discussion, then I am a cessationist. I do not believe that there are ANY spiritual gifts for today. I did not start from that position, I ended with that position. I started with a belief that the Holy Spirit gifted Christians as He saw fit. I saw people being healed from devastating illnesses, I saw people speaking with other tongues, I saw people being raised from the VERY dead. Scripture takes precedence over experience, but I saw the two match in scripture time and time again.
Qwerty, you stated that cessationists' request for proof would be deceptive. My request is not vague so that I could deny what is offered as proof. I have a friend who is a funerak director and buries a lot of people. This very first time one of you guys who teach that these gifts are for today can command someone he buried to come out of the grave and the deceased does so, I will believe. The very first time one of you guys touch a man covered with a hideous deforming severe illness and he is immediately healed, I will believe. The very first time one of you guys touch my friend Jimmy and immediately restores his sight (his eyes have been surgically removed), I will believe. The very first time someone I know suddenly begins speaking and understanding a language that I know they have not learned, I will believe. I know several people who have been severely handicapped since birth and it is an obvious physical, outward, birth defect. The first time someone prays for them and they are restored whole immediately, I will believe. This will not happen, yet it happened in the Bible, openly, frequently, clearly, and without explanations about why it didn't. All I get now is, "Well, they didn't have enough faith.", or, I am told to believe because some vague or specific internal malady is in the process or has been invisibly healed and I have to take someones word for it. I am told that I should believe that someone speaking in a style that I nor anyone else on the face of the planet can understand is following the Bible, yet, no one ever does this in a language that they retain the ability to use. (Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.)
Artimaeus,
You have said that "Scripture takes precedence over experience," but then you go on to make it clear that you will only accept that the gifts are still for today based on your eyewitness experience of certain miracles taking place. How is this consistent?
By the way, I think the gifts are still for today because the Scriptures teach that they will cease when Christ returns, not because of my experience. But you have denied that there are "ANY" spiritual gifts for today, which is an extreme view that I have not seen before. Can you demonstrate this from Scripture?
Pastork
You have said that "Scripture takes precedence over experience," but then you go on to make it clear that you will only accept that the gifts are still for today based on your eyewitness experience of certain miracles taking place. How is this consistent?
By the way, I think the gifts are still for today because the Scriptures teach that they will cease when Christ returns, not because of my experience. But you have denied that there are "ANY" spiritual gifts for today, which is an extreme view that I have not seen before. Can you demonstrate this from Scripture?
Pastork
What about Paul's instructions that the gifts were to be used to edify the body? Why do you permit it when Paul specifically said that gifts were given for the common good (1 Cor 12:7) and that if you were going to seek gifts, they should be used to edify the body. (1 Corinthians 14:12) By not requiring them to use them in the church you are ignoring the entire purpose of the gift.
According to Paul they can pray for interpretation themselves.
~Lorelei
I can see your point that I seem to be inconsistent about experience. That was my fault for not making myself clearer. I do not mean that just because I haven't experienced it that it isn't real. I am not the standard by which these things are judged. Scripture says one thing and the experience of the Charismatics says another, I will take Scripture every time.
TONGUES
Scripture: The ability to speak a language previously unlearned.
Experience: Gibberish and claims of angelic, or unknown language that even they don't understand.
My observation: Scripture and Expericence do not match.
HEALING
Scripture: The ability to heal obvious, outward, visible diseases immediately.
Experience: Vague, inward, questionable, indirect, getting better.
My observation: Scripture and Expericence do not match.
PROPHECY (fore-telling)
Scripture: The ability to predict what is going to happen with 100% accuracy.
Experience: Vague, questionable, indirect, platitudes about possibilities with frequent errors.
My observation: Scripture and Expericence do not match.
MIRACLES (No a rare event but an impossible one)
Scripture: Raising someone from the dead (after 3 days)
Experience: All events within the realm of possibility, just REALLY unusual.
My observation: Scripture and Expericence do not match.
TEACHING
Scripture: The ability to communicate God's word (immediately) when no such ability existed before.
Experience: Learned skill. Many have it, including the lost.
My observation: Scripture and Expericence do not match.
If God gives you something then it is something you didn't have before, faith, salvation, eternal life, redemption, justification, sanctification, etc. Outside of the so called "sign" gifts or "miraculous" gifts, the remainder of what people say are the remaining gifts also show no sign of anything except a learned skill. Lost people, people from clearly heretical religions, even, the occult community can show mercy, helps, hospitality, etc. There is, however, nothing that would identify their exercise of this practice as having come from God. The first century church turned their world on its ear performing works that ONLY God could have produced.